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Oklahoma State Football

Oklahoma State’s 14-Game Home Win Streak Snapped With 24-19 Loss to West Virginia

November 26, 2022
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STILLWATER – It was another rough day for Oklahoma State as the 14-game home win streak is snapped with a 24-19 loss to West Virginia.

With the loss, the Cowboys fall to 7-5 on the season and 4-5 in Big 12 play.

"I told the team I was really proud of the way they finished,” head coach Mike Gundy said in his opening statement. “It was kind of ironic, after Wednesday's practice, I mentioned to the players that if you're a backup, the way some of this has gone this year, make sure you understand what's going on, make sure you know the game plan. We've had so many players that have had to come in and play. One of the most difficult things for young players to do is to prepare like they're going to be the starter when they're in the backup role. Unfortunately, that held true today. I think some of those guys came in and played pretty well that I mentioned you better be ready in case some guys get dinged up.

"Looking forward to starting back up. They get to play one more game together, and I want them to practice well, be enthusiastic and try to play the best game they've played in a few months. We might be able to get a few more guys back which would be good if we can get some guys healthy over the next couple of weeks. We have a chance to go out to compete and go out and play the best game they've played in a few months if we could get some guys back. Told them I appreciated their effort, which I did."

True freshman quarterback Garret Rangel finished the game going 18-of-42 for 178 yards. His leading receiver was Brennan Presley with five receptions for 77 yards on seven targets. The next receiver on the list was redshirt senior Braydon Johnson who had four receptions for 60 yards. That was, however, on 11 targets.

Ollie Gordon posted by far one of Oklahoma State’s best rushing performances of the season against the Mountaineers. The true freshman out of Euless Trinity rushed for 136 yards and one touchdown on 17 carries, an average of eight yards per carry.

Deondre Jackson had his best performance of the season with 56 yards on 12 carries, an average of 4.7 a carry.

"Well, we've been working on it we just haven't seen any results," coach Gundy said. “We rushed the ball better today, we covered guys up. You guys are up higher than I am, it looked like there were some creases in there for some guys to get in there and run a little bit. We haven't had that many creases in about six weeks. It looked like there were some creases for the running backs to get up there and run a little bit." 

The November woes continued for the Cowboys as they got off to a slow start against the Mountaineers. They combined for just 69-first quarter yards, 8-for-13 passing for 79 yards and four carries for negative 10 yards. The defense held WVU to similar stats as they combined for just 67 yards, but they did get into the end zone on a 36-yard run by quarterback Garrett Greene.

The Pokes flipped the script a bit in the second quarter as they combined for 121 yards and a fairly balanced offensive attack. Garret Rangel went 7-of-14 for 79 yards through the air, with the offense combining for 42 yards on 15 carries.

The Pokes’ lone touchdown of the half came on a four-yard rush by Brennan Presley on a little swing pass from Rangel. Tanner Brown hit a 22-yard field goal towards the end of the half to put the Pokes up 10.

The defense struggled quite a bit out of the gates in the third quarter as they struggled to tackle. Running back Jaylen Anderson had a huge quarter as he got into the end zone twice, once from 54 yards out and once from 57 yards out, both coming on missed tackles and early in the quarter.

Ollie Gordon had a really good third quarter for the Pokes, however, as he rushed for 69 yards and one touchdown, getting the Pokes back with two points, 21-19. They had a chance to tie the game at 21, but Rangel failed to connect with Gordon on a fade pass to the corner of the end zone.

The defense came up with a huge stop at the start of the fourth quarter to give the Pokes the ball back at their own 31-yard line. The offense was driving nicely with a 22-yard run down the right side, but Rangel fumbled a snap due to the rain.

Fortunately for the offense, the defense forced a second-straight punt, allowing just one yard on the two drives, to get the offense the ball back. The Cowboy defense came up big on the ensuing WVU drive as they held the Mountaineers to a 34-yard field goal, putting them up 24-19 with 5:59 left in the game.

The Cowboys had a chance to take the lead on the next drive. Starting on the OSU 25-yard line, Ollie Gordon picked up gains of 18, 11 and four yards to put the Pokes on the WVU 46-yard line. A few plays later, he hauled in a pass from Rangel for 10 yards to the WVU 42-yard line following a hold on Preston Wilson. Rangel had a chance to keep the drive alive on 4th and three but overthrew Gordon to give the ball back to WVU.

Derek Mason’s defense had a huge stop on the ensuing drive, giving the offense one last chance to make something happen.

After mishandled snap and a 28-yard punt, the Pokes took over on their own 46-yard line with 1:29 remaining on the clock and one timeout. On the first play of the drive, WVU was called for defensive pass interference against Braydon Johnson. The refs, however, picked the flag up on account of the ball being underthrown, much to the dismay of the OSU faithful.

Rangel went back to Johnson the next play, with Johnson dropping the ball towards the sidelines. Rangel missed John Paul Richardson on 3rd and 10, bringing up a 4th and long. A short pass to Ollie Gordon was dropped, giving the ball back to West Virginia with just over a minute.

Discussion from...

Oklahoma State’s 14-Game Home Win Streak Snapped With 24-19 Loss to West Virginia

17,411 Views | 104 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by gary121853
CaliforniaCowboy
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gary121853 said:

Thanks for validating my point Joe!
3 OL on NFL rosters in 3 years ....out of all the OL recruits over same time period. ..woopee do...and those were not our recruits...
Gundy does not embrace 'change' very well...period...so, you can expect to get the same OL results ...period ... otherwise, we would have seen OL improvement VS what we've seen for last decade ...get a grip ..
oh... NOW, they have to be high school recruits to count.... they just keep changing their hate rules to match whatever they're trying to bash the team about.

good gawd
Pokes4158
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Please **** off. Thank you
CaliforniaCowboy
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CowboyRed said:

Please **** off. Thank you
seriously mods, how long do we have to put us with stuff like this?

I did noting to have a statement like that directed at me. This guy is not even civil anymore.

gary121853
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Cali....seriously...you are a very 'provoking' individual and should seek counseling ...lol...
OSUgary
Pokes4158
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Like that time you called that guy a dumbass and I flagged it and they didn't care?
CaliforniaCowboy
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CowboyRed said:

Like that time you called that guy a dumbass and I flagged it and they didn't care?
it's not true. If I did, it was a retaliatory statement, and not initiated by me. Just as if I called you one right now.

CaliforniaCowboy
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gary121853 said:

Cali....seriously...you are a very 'provoking' individual and should seek counseling ...lol...
I provoke THOUGHT, not conflict.

but look what you just did.... yet another personal attack on me. Talk about somebody needing counseling.

you're freaking chastising me for something that you are in the middle of doing yourself... SMH
Pokes4158
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I screen shotted it just in case I ever needed to prove it. you absolutely did and you absolutely remember doing it and regardless of the circumstance it's not ok. Like you preach to others. Cry about in fact. You got frustrated someone was proving you wrong or just wouldn't let someone have an opinion you don't like so you called that person a dumbass. Plain and simple you do what you preach for others not to do.
Pokes4158
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Also you provoke conflict. People
Literally announce to have you leave them alone and you ignore it. You fired back and instigate. You literally provoke conflict. People say they get tired of your negativity and you provoke back. You are not a saint cali. It's narcissistic not to see it.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

Cali....seriously...you are a very 'provoking' individual and should seek counseling ...lol...
I provoke THOUGHT, not conflict.

but look what you just did.... yet another personal attack on me. Talk about somebody needing counseling.

you're freaking chastising me for something that you are in the middle of doing yourself... SMH
.

Actually, Gary was completely wrong in a post on another thread. He claimed you need a bigger mirror. Not true because you don't have a mirror.
TUSKAPOKE
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RA....Listened to you on the radio today. I have already expressed my thoughts on a previous post and like a lot of folks concerned and disappointment. This year was not good at all. I am not a "fair weather fan" or a "Pollyanna". I was born in Stillwater, as my dad finished up his engineering degree as the last A&M graduating class, and three generations of the family have graduated. We are lifetime members of the alumni association too. We are vested and as orange as there is in OSU fandom. I have posted before that there have been two conference championships in my lifetime and I just got my Medicare card. That is not acceptable!!! Most of us recognize the past 20 years as the "Orange Age" of OSU football bu in that 20 years there has been one conference championship. It is time to take the next step whatever that takes. I really mean whatever it takes. Change of coaches and I like Gundy....better recruiting....facility upgrade.... expanded NIL ASAP.....I have invested and I am at a point now I can not invest much but willing to write a few checks. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of "stupid" and it is time to make changes. Hell, can we have at least one more conference championship before I am buried in my OSU gear???
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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TUSKAPOKE said:

RA....Listened to you on the radio today. I have already expressed my thoughts on a previous post and like a lot of folks concerned and disappointment. This year was not good at all. I am not a "fair weather fan" or a "Pollyanna". I was born in Stillwater, as my dad finished up his engineering degree as the last A&M graduating class, and three generations of the family have graduated. We are lifetime members of the alumni association too. We are vested and as orange as there is in OSU fandom. I have posted before that there have been two conference championships in my lifetime and I just got my Medicare card. That is not acceptable!!! Most of us recognize the past 20 years as the "Orange Age" of OSU football bu in that 20 years there has been one conference championship. It is time to take the next step whatever that takes. I really mean whatever it takes. Change of coaches and I like Gundy....better recruiting....facility upgrade.... expanded NIL ASAP.....I have invested and I am at a point now I can not invest much but willing to write a few checks. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of "stupid" and it is time to make changes. Hell, can we have at least one more conference championship before I am buried in my OSU gear???


Okay, let's fire Gundy. Who you gonna hire? Dave Aranda? He just went 6-6 without massive injuries after going 12-2. Sound like a deal?
TUSKAPOKE
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Thank you for reading my post. Injuries were bad this season and has been discussed ad infinitum. Gundy will be here until he is ready to leave and will not be let go unless there is a complete collapse or some other crazy reason. So, I believe what I wrote is if "almost" is good enough, then do nothing. If "almost" is not good enough, changes must be made, the sooner the better. Accepting "good" is okay for some but not the "deal" that is acceptable to many of us. 2011 was 11 years ago. 1976 was 46 years ago. Doing the same thing the same way for 18 years has got us to a good place. Is "good" just the deal you want? Got to make changes with assistant coaches, recruiting, and NIL $$$ as I posted to get to the next level. Do that or hope to maintain "good" but expect more decline. Have a nice evening.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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TUSKAPOKE said:

Thank you for reading my post. Injuries were bad this season and has been discussed ad infinitum. Gundy will be here until he is ready to leave and will not be let go unless there is a complete collapse or some other crazy reason. So, I believe what I wrote is if "almost" is good enough, then do nothing. If "almost" is not good enough, changes must be made, the sooner the better. Accepting "good" is okay for some but not the "deal" that is acceptable to many of us. 2011 was 11 years ago. 1976 was 46 years ago. Doing the same thing the same way for 18 years has got us to a good place. Is "good" just the deal you want? Got to make changes with assistant coaches, recruiting, and NIL $$$ as I posted to get to the next level. Do that or hope to maintain "good" but expect more decline. Have a nice evening.


I did read your post. 2 things stand out. The current state of the program is unacceptable. And, there must be changes. Sounds like someone that's an advocate for a coaching change.

News flash, the fans voice doesn't matter unless it's a voice to fire the HC. Calling for changes is a fools game. As you essentially said, Gundy will or won't do what Gundy will or won't do. And I'd be willing to bet Gundy is in a better position to evaluate the need for changes, than us fans. Relax, bad games and even bad seasons (relative to some expectations) happen. Get over it and look forward to next season.
TUSKAPOKE
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You can defend Gundy and the lack of conference championships all you want. I want more and expect more. You can accept "almost" but not me. Gundy indicated he listened to the fans Saturday when he went for it on 4th down. He will listen if the right $$$ fans, Shrum and Weiberg discuss it. The Cowboy Culture needs a shot of adrenaline or it will stagnate. Recruiting currently looks like it needs to improve greatly in the next two weeks. Who recruits? Gundy is paid as CEO to run it all. So get it done because, with the exception of last year, the program has plateaued and is not getting better. I am watching Jelani Woods catch 8 passes in the MNF game. Remember him? Maybe some new eyes on things would help and make sure complacency has not developed.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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TUSKAPOKE said:

You can defend Gundy and the lack of conference championships all you want. I want more and expect more. You can accept "almost" but not me. Gundy indicated he listened to the fans Saturday when he went for it on 4th down. He will listen if the right $$$ fans, Shrum and Weiberg discuss it. The Cowboy Culture needs a shot of adrenaline or it will stagnate. Recruiting currently looks like it needs to improve greatly in the next two weeks. Who recruits? Gundy is paid as CEO to run it all. So get it done because, with the exception of last year, the program has plateaued and is not getting better. I am watching Jelani Woods catch 8 passes in the MNF game. Remember him? Maybe some new eyes on things would help and make sure complacency has not developed.


So who do you want to hire? And are you contributing to Gundy's buyout?

Your family should be glad you don't live in Nebraska or College Station. You'd have committed suicide years ago.
TUSKAPOKE
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I have indicated to you in several posts that Gundy is going nowhere until he decides to retire/move on, it collapses or for some other off the field reason. Gundy has assistant coaches and staff responsible for recruiting and coaching. Maybe he should start there as CEO. Do I have some money I would contribute to a buyout? Yes. Do you? Accept "almost" or "wait until next year" all you want. That is the definition of complacency and the program is there.

I live in Oklahoma and expect better. I do not live on this site to comment on every post like some. I do not believe I am so upset I would commit suicide over a sport.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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TUSKAPOKE said:

I have indicated to you in several posts that Gundy is going nowhere until he decides to retire/move on, it collapses or for some other off the field reason. Gundy has assistant coaches and staff responsible for recruiting and coaching. Maybe he should start there as CEO. Do I have some money I would contribute to a buyout? Yes. Do you? Accept "almost" or "wait until next year" all you want. That is the definition of complacency and the program is there.

I live in Oklahoma and expect better. I do not live on this site to comment on every post like some. I do not believe I am so upset I would commit suicide over a sport.


Dude, you're all over the place. Do you want Gundy fired? Yes or no?
CaliforniaCowboy
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CowboyRed said:

Also you provoke conflict. People
Literally announce to have you leave them alone and you ignore it. You fired back and instigate. You literally provoke conflict. People say they get tired of your negativity and you provoke back. You are not a saint cali. It's narcissistic not to see it.
did too. did not. did too. did not.

you're doing a great job there... keep it up
TUSKAPOKE
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DUDE.....Nope....Read my posts again.....I will simplify it for you:

1. Gundy is here until he retires, dies, or is removed for reason....collapse of the program or off field issues. He has a contract for life that can be broken RA says we are in the Golden Age and I do not disagree. Do you want to stay on the plateau of "almost" or "wait until next year" or tweek the status quo to get to the next level? It is time to change.

2. Assistant coaches need to be reviewed and several changes made due to recruiting failures and coaching issues that show up in games. Ex. of recruiting issue: The best OL Saturday was a portal transfer from Vandy that came in the summer.

3. NIL $$$ needs to be upped and we get in the game because the game has changed drastically. No one is going to wait for us to be the honorable Cowboy while the others stretch the rules and go over the top. The NCAA is a dinosaur and dead.

4. The "arms race" involving facilities must be reviewed and get in that game or fall behind more.

The program has plateaued and when that happens that leads to complacency. Our current measurement of success is a winning season and going to a bowl game. That is "almost" that many....seems like you...support and I do not. The bar must be raised and Gundy needs to make changes to raise it. Success must be measured by conference championships more than one every 50 years. If Gundy cannot get that done, in a few years, he needs to retire or be retired. Is that simple enough for you? Does that involve firing? The program is bigger than one person and that one is not irreplaceable. Up the measureables and you do not hit them you go.

Do you want to be just "almost" or actually win a conference championship every decade? To get to the next level doing the same thing over and over again is not getting ti done!!! Six inches short of the goal line or six wins away is the same.....no conference championship and no possibility for the CFP and a national championship. Enjoy your day....DUDE....
CaliforniaCowboy
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wow.... what happened to Tuska's rah, rah posts?

I don't agree with any of his 4 points, but WTH, this post is so out of "character" (if one can have a posting character)

GumbyFromPokeyLand
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TUSKAPOKE said:

DUDE.....Nope....Read my posts again.....I will simplify it for you:

1. Gundy is here until he retires, dies, or is removed for reason....collapse of the program or off field issues. He has a contract for life that can be broken RA says we are in the Golden Age and I do not disagree. Do you want to stay on the plateau of "almost" or "wait until next year" or tweek the status quo to get to the next level? It is time to change.

2. Assistant coaches need to be reviewed and several changes made due to recruiting failures and coaching issues that show up in games. Ex. of recruiting issue: The best OL Saturday was a portal transfer from Vandy that came in the summer.

3. NIL $$$ needs to be upped and we get in the game because the game has changed drastically. No one is going to wait for us to be the honorable Cowboy while the others stretch the rules and go over the top. The NCAA is a dinosaur and dead.

4. The "arms race" involving facilities must be reviewed and get in that game or fall behind more.

The program has plateaued and when that happens that leads to complacency. Our current measurement of success is a winning season and going to a bowl game. That is "almost" that many....seems like you...support and I do not. The bar must be raised and Gundy needs to make changes to raise it. Success must be measured by conference championships more than one every 50 years. If Gundy cannot get that done, in a few years, he needs to retire or be retired. Is that simple enough for you? Does that involve firing? The program is bigger than one person and that one is not irreplaceable. Up the measureables and you do not hit them you go.

Do you want to be just "almost" or actually win a conference championship every decade? To get to the next level doing the same thing over and over again is not getting ti done!!! Six inches short of the goal line or six wins away is the same.....no conference championship and no possibility for the CFP and a national championship. Enjoy your day....DUDE....


Very confusing stance. On one hand you're unwilling to accept "almost" (whatever that means) and prepared to contribute to Gundy's buyout, but on the other hand are unwilling to fire Gundy. Which is it? I guess it means you're unwilling to accept "almost" except if it means firing Gundy.

As for the changes you think are necessary, let's examine. Gundy is accountable for his results given his budget, the pedigree of the program, and its status within the conference and FBS football. Thus any elements (recruiting, assistant coaches, schemes, game plans, development, play calling, etc) necessary to achieve those results are Gundy's responsibility, nobody else's. Are you suggesting Gundy should be forced to do something within that realm he doesn't endorse? Or, do we want the HC, whom we don't want to fire, the latitude to run his program the way he chooses and in line with his level of accountability?

With specific regard to recruiting, Gundy is not in charge of the recruiting budget. Should he be given a bigger budget which could hopefully help deliver better recruiting results? Sure, but that's for Weiberg and Shrum to decide if Gundy can provide the confidence that a materially increased budget will result in meaningfully better results. All this is above my pay grade.

With regard to facilities, again that's a Weiberg/Shrum issue. And again, Gundy would need to provide the definition of the need and the confidence that need would result in meaningfully better results. Again, above my pay grade.

With regard to NIL, that's outside of the control of the school. So if you have complaints about the way NIL money is spent, or how much is available, open your checkbook and a line of communication with the collectives, or athletes themselves.

So to recap, if you're unwilling to make a change at HC, you're stuck with how the HC wants to handle all the elements of the program for which he is accountable. Thus, to address any of the changes you seek, it comes down to $$$$ in the football budget and $$$$ available for NIL. And if you're unwilling to accept "almost", then you have to be willing to open your checkbook.

gary121853
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TuskaPoke,

for what its worth, I had no problem understanding/following your logic on any of your Posts ...
OSUgary
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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gary121853 said:

TuskaPoke,

for what its worth, I had no problem understanding/following your logic on any of your Posts ...


You and Tuska want "change". Some of the changes you want can only occur within the HCs realm (assistants, scheme, development, recruiting, etc), while other changes (budgets, facilities, etc..) can only happen at the AD/Prez level, or outside the program with NIL.

With regards to changes within the realm of the HC, your want for changes is misdirected unless you're asking for a change of HC. Any HC is going to run his program in a way he deems best. Every year, Gundy evaluates all aspects of the program and implements any changes he deems necessary. So just asking a HC to change is asking him to do something he doesn't believe in. Not to mention anybody sitting in the stands is ill-prepared to adequately assess any specific need for change, all things considered, that the HC doesn't see himself. So at the end of the day, you either accept the HC for who he is and how he runs the program, or you don't. You're either in or out, not sitting on the fence demanding changes but unwilling to replace the HC.

Within the aspects of the program controlled by the AD/Prez, there is room to ask for change since it's the fans that pay the bills. Increased financial commitment by the fans/supporters can and will lead to the changes they support.

And as stated previously, if somebody thinks we need more funding for NIL, open your checkbook and have at it.
CaliforniaCowboy
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exactly, Gumby.

Calling for changes to an OC or OLine coach or any other position only undermines the authority of the HC.

the HC, and only the HC, should have full and sole accountability for the makeup of his staff and the results produced.

Telling a coach who he has to hire, and who he needs to listen too (for funding) only ever results in the situation we had with Miles, and he bailed on us in the middle of a freaking bowl game he couldn't wait to get out from under that mess and have full control of his program.

Gundy had to threaten to leave a couple of times to get the jerks (administration) off of his back.

If it's time for the HC to go, then that is one position, everything else is nothing productive and is merely a distraction to our program.
gary121853
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

TuskaPoke,

for what its worth, I had no problem understanding/following your logic on any of your Posts ...


You and Tuska want "change". Some of the changes you want can only occur within the HCs realm (assistants, scheme, development, recruiting, etc), while other changes (budgets, facilities, etc..) can only happen at the AD/Prez level, or outside the program with NIL.

With regards to changes within the realm of the HC, your want for changes is misdirected unless you're asking for a change of HC. Any HC is going to run his program in a way he deems best. Every year, Gundy evaluates all aspects of the program and implements any changes he deems necessary. So just asking a HC to change is asking him to do something he doesn't believe in. Not to mention anybody sitting in the stands is ill-prepared to adequately assess any specific need for change, all things considered, that the HC doesn't see himself. So at the end of the day, you either accept the HC for who he is and how he runs the program, or you don't. You're either in or out, not sitting on the fence demanding changes but unwilling to replace the HC.

Within the aspects of the program controlled by the AD/Prez, there is room to ask for change since it's the fans that pay the bills. Increased financial commitment by the fans/supporters can and will lead to the changes they support.

And as stated previously, if somebody thinks we need more funding for NIL, open your checkbook and have at it.
I already understood the 'division of responsibilities' between the stakeholders. For the informed fanbase they understand. However, to your specific points about 'his program to make decisions he deems necessary'? Nothing could be farther from the truth! Additionally, I have never ONCE advocated for a HC change! So, NO, I am not implying any such thing, I am absolutely of the belief that Gundy is adverse to 'change' and he has demonstrated that characteristic thru out his entire career. Examples and statements abound for that truth!
Also, there are a ton of examples out there where HC were FORCED to make changes 'they did not believe in'
The FB program IS NOT Gumby's absolute domain to 'do as he pleases' any more so, than a company is the absolute domain of the CEO to do as they please. "Sitting on the fence demanding change'? Sorry, that stmt makes no sense to me.... 'demanding change' is hardly 'sitting on the fence' ...and YES, I absolutely would want to replace HC Gumby if he continues to demonstrate an incapcity to recognize 'CHANGES' are needed/required inside the program!
OSUgary
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

TuskaPoke,

for what its worth, I had no problem understanding/following your logic on any of your Posts ...


You and Tuska want "change". Some of the changes you want can only occur within the HCs realm (assistants, scheme, development, recruiting, etc), while other changes (budgets, facilities, etc..) can only happen at the AD/Prez level, or outside the program with NIL.

With regards to changes within the realm of the HC, your want for changes is misdirected unless you're asking for a change of HC. Any HC is going to run his program in a way he deems best. Every year, Gundy evaluates all aspects of the program and implements any changes he deems necessary. So just asking a HC to change is asking him to do something he doesn't believe in. Not to mention anybody sitting in the stands is ill-prepared to adequately assess any specific need for change, all things considered, that the HC doesn't see himself. So at the end of the day, you either accept the HC for who he is and how he runs the program, or you don't. You're either in or out, not sitting on the fence demanding changes but unwilling to replace the HC.

Within the aspects of the program controlled by the AD/Prez, there is room to ask for change since it's the fans that pay the bills. Increased financial commitment by the fans/supporters can and will lead to the changes they support.

And as stated previously, if somebody thinks we need more funding for NIL, open your checkbook and have at it.
I already understood the 'division of responsibilities' between the stakeholders. For the informed fanbase they understand. However, to your specific points about 'his program to make decisions he deems necessary'? Nothing could be farther from the truth! Additionally, I have never ONCE advocated for a HC change! So, NO, I am not implying any such thing, I am absolutely of the belief that Gundy is adverse to 'change' and he has demonstrated that characteristic thru out his entire career. Examples and statements abound for that truth!
Also, there are a ton of examples out there where HC were FORCED to make changes 'they did not believe in'
The FB program IS NOT Gumby's absolute domain to 'do as he pleases' any more so, than a company is the absolute domain of the CEO to do as they please. "Sitting on the fence demanding change'? Sorry, that stmt makes no sense to me.... 'demanding change' is hardly 'sitting on the fence' ...and YES, I absolutely would want to replace HC Gumby if he continues to demonstrate an incapcity to recognize 'CHANGES' are needed/required inside the program!


Responsibilities of stakeholders? That "stakeholders" are the fans, boosters, alumni, supporters. The HC, AD and Prez are not stakeholders.

Gundy doesn't change? You're absolutely insane.
Well here's a few changes he's embraced and undertaken.
- changed from the Miles offense to a zone-read
- changed from a zone-read to a spread
- adopted the no-huddle
- adopted a hurry-up
- got away from QB run game
- went back to QB run-game
- gave up play calling
- re-allocated scholarships between offense and defense
- adapts offense to the available personnel
- change in defensive philosophy to better handle spread offenses
- has at different points relied on base 4-3-4, 4-2-5, 3-3-5 defenses.
- changed approaches to tackling in practice
- changed the allocation of practice snaps amongst the first, second and third teams.
- first coach in ncaa history to employ a female on- field coach
- Gundy routinely tells us he asks for new ideas and approaches from his assistants. Is he lying?
I could go on and on. Any knucklehead that suggests Gundy is inflexible and not willing to change is completely clueless. Gundy has been a front runner in how to recruit, pay and treat coaches. How to approach practice. How to utilize tempo, etc..,

Give us a few examples of HC that we're forced to change something completely within their control but against their will. I don't think they exist. And if Gundy was forced to change something against his will, just what would that be and who would "force" him?

Do you think Gundy doesn't assess all aspects of the program and how to improve? Of course he does. Do you think he's ever changed anything as a result? Of course he has. Do you think he rejects well-founded changes presented by his staff for no reason? I doubt it. Do you think he listens to fans for their ideas or proposed changes? No.

Apparently you think YOU have a better understanding what this program needs than the HC. You think there needs to be change. Change for the sake of change, or do you have a goal in mind? And if you have a goal in mind, what is that goal or goals?

Finally, if you think Gundy is adverse to change to the detriment of the program, why the hell aren't you asking for his job? You and Tuska make no sense.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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I want to separately address your following statement:

"However, to your specific points about 'his program to make decisions he deems necessary'? Nothing could be farther from the truth!"

Are you serious? You think someone other than Gundy decides how to operate the football program? Let's test that. Who ultimately decides:
- the assistant coaches? Their duties?
-the players? They're playing time?
- who to recruit? How to recruit? Where to recruit? When to recruit? How many to recruit? What type of athlete to recruit?
- practice times and methods?
- offensive and defensive schemes?
- game plans?
- strength and training?
- nutrition?
- off field rules unrelated to general student conduct?
- a million other in- season and out-of-season routines and procedures?

Give me the name of one person not on the coaching staff that has any responsibility to make any decisions regarding the items listed above.

Then, tell me what "changes" (other than budget, funding or facilities type things) you're demanding that do not fall within at least one of the above items.

I'll wait.



gary121853
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

I want to separately address your following statement:

"However, to your specific points about 'his program to make decisions he deems necessary'? Nothing could be farther from the truth!"

Are you serious? You think someone other than Gundy decides how to operate the football program? Let's test that. Who ultimately decides:
- the assistant coaches? Their duties?
-the players? They're playing time?
- who to recruit? How to recruit? Where to recruit? When to recruit? How many to recruit? What type of athlete to recruit?
- practice times and methods?
- offensive and defensive schemes?
- game plans?
- strength and training?
- nutrition?
- off field rules unrelated to general student conduct?
- a million other in- season and out-of-season routines and procedures?

Give me the name of one person not on the coaching staff that has any responsibility to make any decisions regarding the items listed above.

Then, tell me what "changes" (other than budget, funding or facilities type things) you're demanding that do not fall within at least one of the above items.

I'll wait.




I stand by what I said period! i could care less about what you so passionately believe to be true. You clearly, dont understand differencess between operational vs strategic decision-making. Operational 'changes' you point out .....Gumby and HC makes those decisions everyday and that is their purvue. Strategically? That is NOT and never has been a HC 'exclusive' domain for decisions just like it is not for any other CEO.
You can 'wait' for a long time because I'm not wasting my time with You (or Cali) who don't have the intellect to understand Post(s). However, as far as 'all' the examples of 'changes' you claim Gumby has made? Give me a break .... many were 'pushed/imposed' by others .... spare me the lesson on the definition of Stakeholder(s) ... you (and Cali) are the perfect example of the person who sits in business meetings and offer nothing of strategic value to decision-making process .... rather, you sit back and confuse your nit-picking commentary as value and everyone else laughs at your stupidity and wonder why you were even invited to the meeting .... lol
OSUgary
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

I want to separately address your following statement:

"However, to your specific points about 'his program to make decisions he deems necessary'? Nothing could be farther from the truth!"

Are you serious? You think someone other than Gundy decides how to operate the football program? Let's test that. Who ultimately decides:
- the assistant coaches? Their duties?
-the players? They're playing time?
- who to recruit? How to recruit? Where to recruit? When to recruit? How many to recruit? What type of athlete to recruit?
- practice times and methods?
- offensive and defensive schemes?
- game plans?
- strength and training?
- nutrition?
- off field rules unrelated to general student conduct?
- a million other in- season and out-of-season routines and procedures?

Give me the name of one person not on the coaching staff that has any responsibility to make any decisions regarding the items listed above.

Then, tell me what "changes" (other than budget, funding or facilities type things) you're demanding that do not fall within at least one of the above items.

I'll wait.




I stand by what I said period! i could care less about what you so passionately believe to be true. You clearly, dont understand differencess between operational vs strategic decision-making. Operational 'changes' you point out .....Gumby and HC makes those decisions everyday and that is their purvue. Strategically? That is NOT and never has been a HC 'exclusive' domain for decisions just like it is not for any other CEO.
You can 'wait' for a long time because I'm not wasting my time with You (or Cali) who don't have the intellect to understand Post(s). However, as far as 'all' the examples of 'changes' you claim Gumby has made? Give me a break .... many were 'pushed/imposed' by others .... spare me the lesson on the definition of Stakeholder(s) ... you (and Cali) are the perfect example of the person who sits in business meetings and offer nothing of strategic value to decision-making process .... rather, you sit back and confuse your nit-picking commentary as value and everyone else laughs at your stupidity and wonder why you were even invited to the meeting .... lol


Question. Can you give me an example of a strategic decision that is not Gundy's to make?

Question. Should our HC take direction from fans/supporters on how to run the program?

Question. What happens when you want one type of change and Aunt Mavis wants a different change? Which fan gets the change they want? And what strategic changes are you advocating?

Do you not see which road to the funny farm your idea would take us?

FYI, CEOs do not implement changes they do not believe in. CEOs are only forced to implement changes in which they do not agree by the Board of Directors. Then the CEO resigns.
gary121853
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Your last paragraph is absolutely wrong. CEO's implement pieces of strategy everyday that are not 100% their idea. You are right, if they cant buyin then they resign or forced out. Strategically speaking, im sure BoT, Shrum and Weiberg provide Gundy all the strategic direction needed. If a strategic direction change is one Gundy cant live with he has option(s). You have a perfect example with what transpired in Norman. There were strategic differences and you saw the outcome. At a tactical level HC are forced to make hire/fire decisions every year.
OSUgary
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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gary121853 said:

Your last paragraph is absolutely wrong. CEO's implement pieces of strategy everyday that are not 100% their idea. You are right, if they cant buyin then they resign or forced out. Strategically speaking, im sure BoT, Shrum and Weiberg provide Gundy all the strategic direction needed. If a strategic direction change is one Gundy cant live with he has option(s). You have a perfect example with what transpired in Norman. There were strategic differences and you saw the outcome. At a tactical level HC are forced to make hire/fire decisions every year.


Who said anything about a CEO or HC not open to ideas? Or only implementing ideas he and he alone developed? I said "unwanted changes FORCED upon a CEO or HC". Gundy, just like every HC (or CEO) listens to and implements ideas for change presented to them by subordinates all the time. Gundy himself has said he's gotten ideas from his assistants.

Now, give me an example of a "strategic" change to a football program (that's not budget, funding, media or conference related) that' should be left in part or total responsibility of someone other than the HC. Then, give me the strategic change you're seeking for OSU and who should the concept of such change come from.

As for what happened in Norman, I not sure what you're talking about and no factual knowledge of what happened, and neither do you, you're just speculating. Regardless, what did or didn't happen in Norman certainly is not the type of "change in strategic direction" you feel must be implemented in Stillwater.
CaliforniaCowboy
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Gumby 3, Gary 0

you need facts Gary, not "firmly believe" and "stand by" my unsubstantiated claims

It's almost halftime, you can still rally
gary121853
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CaliforniaCowboy said:

Gumby 3, Gary 0

you need facts Gary, not "firmly believe" and "stand by" my unsubstantiated claims

It's almost halftime, you can still rally


Cali ...you as a any type score keeper is beyond funny ..
OSUgary
gary121853
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

Your last paragraph is absolutely wrong. CEO's implement pieces of strategy everyday that are not 100% their idea. You are right, if they cant buyin then they resign or forced out. Strategically speaking, im sure BoT, Shrum and Weiberg provide Gundy all the strategic direction needed. If a strategic direction change is one Gundy cant live with he has option(s). You have a perfect example with what transpired in Norman. There were strategic differences and you saw the outcome. At a tactical level HC are forced to make hire/fire decisions every year.


Who said anything about a CEO or HC not open to ideas? Or only implementing ideas he and he alone developed? I said "unwanted changes FORCED upon a CEO or HC". Gundy, just like every HC (or CEO) listens to and implements ideas for change presented to them by subordinates all the time. Gundy himself has said he's gotten ideas from his assistants.

Now, give me an example of a "strategic" change to a football program (that's not budget, funding, media or conference related) that' should be left in part or total responsibility of someone other than the HC. Then, give me the strategic change you're seeking for OSU and who should the concept of such change come from.

As for what happened in Norman, I not sure what you're talking about and no factual knowledge of what happened, and neither do you, you're just speculating. Regardless, what did or didn't happen in Norman certainly is not the type of "change in strategic direction" you feel must be implemented in Stillwater.


1st Paragraph - I never said or intimated that Gundy 'does not' listen to input. To the contrary, Im confident he does (from top and btm). Rather, I said Gundy has demonstrated before a resistance to change. I never said/intimated that Gundy has a wholesale resistance to change character.
2nd Paragraph-Recruiting Philosophy (strategic to tactical levels)
3rd Paragraph-A strategic example ... not advocating for same in Stillwater
OSUgary
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