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Oklahoma State Football

Oklahoma State’s 14-Game Home Win Streak Snapped With 24-19 Loss to West Virginia

November 26, 2022
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STILLWATER – It was another rough day for Oklahoma State as the 14-game home win streak is snapped with a 24-19 loss to West Virginia.

With the loss, the Cowboys fall to 7-5 on the season and 4-5 in Big 12 play.

"I told the team I was really proud of the way they finished,” head coach Mike Gundy said in his opening statement. “It was kind of ironic, after Wednesday's practice, I mentioned to the players that if you're a backup, the way some of this has gone this year, make sure you understand what's going on, make sure you know the game plan. We've had so many players that have had to come in and play. One of the most difficult things for young players to do is to prepare like they're going to be the starter when they're in the backup role. Unfortunately, that held true today. I think some of those guys came in and played pretty well that I mentioned you better be ready in case some guys get dinged up.

"Looking forward to starting back up. They get to play one more game together, and I want them to practice well, be enthusiastic and try to play the best game they've played in a few months. We might be able to get a few more guys back which would be good if we can get some guys healthy over the next couple of weeks. We have a chance to go out to compete and go out and play the best game they've played in a few months if we could get some guys back. Told them I appreciated their effort, which I did."

True freshman quarterback Garret Rangel finished the game going 18-of-42 for 178 yards. His leading receiver was Brennan Presley with five receptions for 77 yards on seven targets. The next receiver on the list was redshirt senior Braydon Johnson who had four receptions for 60 yards. That was, however, on 11 targets.

Ollie Gordon posted by far one of Oklahoma State’s best rushing performances of the season against the Mountaineers. The true freshman out of Euless Trinity rushed for 136 yards and one touchdown on 17 carries, an average of eight yards per carry.

Deondre Jackson had his best performance of the season with 56 yards on 12 carries, an average of 4.7 a carry.

"Well, we've been working on it we just haven't seen any results," coach Gundy said. “We rushed the ball better today, we covered guys up. You guys are up higher than I am, it looked like there were some creases in there for some guys to get in there and run a little bit. We haven't had that many creases in about six weeks. It looked like there were some creases for the running backs to get up there and run a little bit." 

The November woes continued for the Cowboys as they got off to a slow start against the Mountaineers. They combined for just 69-first quarter yards, 8-for-13 passing for 79 yards and four carries for negative 10 yards. The defense held WVU to similar stats as they combined for just 67 yards, but they did get into the end zone on a 36-yard run by quarterback Garrett Greene.

The Pokes flipped the script a bit in the second quarter as they combined for 121 yards and a fairly balanced offensive attack. Garret Rangel went 7-of-14 for 79 yards through the air, with the offense combining for 42 yards on 15 carries.

The Pokes’ lone touchdown of the half came on a four-yard rush by Brennan Presley on a little swing pass from Rangel. Tanner Brown hit a 22-yard field goal towards the end of the half to put the Pokes up 10.

The defense struggled quite a bit out of the gates in the third quarter as they struggled to tackle. Running back Jaylen Anderson had a huge quarter as he got into the end zone twice, once from 54 yards out and once from 57 yards out, both coming on missed tackles and early in the quarter.

Ollie Gordon had a really good third quarter for the Pokes, however, as he rushed for 69 yards and one touchdown, getting the Pokes back with two points, 21-19. They had a chance to tie the game at 21, but Rangel failed to connect with Gordon on a fade pass to the corner of the end zone.

The defense came up with a huge stop at the start of the fourth quarter to give the Pokes the ball back at their own 31-yard line. The offense was driving nicely with a 22-yard run down the right side, but Rangel fumbled a snap due to the rain.

Fortunately for the offense, the defense forced a second-straight punt, allowing just one yard on the two drives, to get the offense the ball back. The Cowboy defense came up big on the ensuing WVU drive as they held the Mountaineers to a 34-yard field goal, putting them up 24-19 with 5:59 left in the game.

The Cowboys had a chance to take the lead on the next drive. Starting on the OSU 25-yard line, Ollie Gordon picked up gains of 18, 11 and four yards to put the Pokes on the WVU 46-yard line. A few plays later, he hauled in a pass from Rangel for 10 yards to the WVU 42-yard line following a hold on Preston Wilson. Rangel had a chance to keep the drive alive on 4th and three but overthrew Gordon to give the ball back to WVU.

Derek Mason’s defense had a huge stop on the ensuing drive, giving the offense one last chance to make something happen.

After mishandled snap and a 28-yard punt, the Pokes took over on their own 46-yard line with 1:29 remaining on the clock and one timeout. On the first play of the drive, WVU was called for defensive pass interference against Braydon Johnson. The refs, however, picked the flag up on account of the ball being underthrown, much to the dismay of the OSU faithful.

Rangel went back to Johnson the next play, with Johnson dropping the ball towards the sidelines. Rangel missed John Paul Richardson on 3rd and 10, bringing up a 4th and long. A short pass to Ollie Gordon was dropped, giving the ball back to West Virginia with just over a minute.

Discussion from...

Oklahoma State’s 14-Game Home Win Streak Snapped With 24-19 Loss to West Virginia

16,205 Views | 104 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by gary121853
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

Your last paragraph is absolutely wrong. CEO's implement pieces of strategy everyday that are not 100% their idea. You are right, if they cant buyin then they resign or forced out. Strategically speaking, im sure BoT, Shrum and Weiberg provide Gundy all the strategic direction needed. If a strategic direction change is one Gundy cant live with he has option(s). You have a perfect example with what transpired in Norman. There were strategic differences and you saw the outcome. At a tactical level HC are forced to make hire/fire decisions every year.


Who said anything about a CEO or HC not open to ideas? Or only implementing ideas he and he alone developed? I said "unwanted changes FORCED upon a CEO or HC". Gundy, just like every HC (or CEO) listens to and implements ideas for change presented to them by subordinates all the time. Gundy himself has said he's gotten ideas from his assistants.

Now, give me an example of a "strategic" change to a football program (that's not budget, funding, media or conference related) that' should be left in part or total responsibility of someone other than the HC. Then, give me the strategic change you're seeking for OSU and who should the concept of such change come from.

As for what happened in Norman, I not sure what you're talking about and no factual knowledge of what happened, and neither do you, you're just speculating. Regardless, what did or didn't happen in Norman certainly is not the type of "change in strategic direction" you feel must be implemented in Stillwater.


1st Paragraph - I never said or intimated that Gundy 'does not' listen to input. To the contrary, Im confident he does (from top and btm). Rather, I said Gundy has demonstrated before a resistance to change. I never said/intimated that Gundy has a wholesale resistance to change character.
2nd Paragraph-Recruiting Philosophy (strategic to tactical levels)
3rd Paragraph-A strategic example ... not advocating for same in Stillwater


Every HC resists and rejects change he either doesn't think will work, doesn't for the budget or is contrary or in conflict with other program principles. Gundy is no different.

You think recruiting philosophy is strategic and subject to input fro someone not in the program? That is beyond absurd. You want a coach to potentially recruit athletes he doesn't want? Or don't fit? Or that would just waste his time? That's totally absurd. You need to get off this site, turn off ESPN, forget football, and never utter another word about OSU football.

I still have no idea what you're talking about in Norman. What is it that happened? .
gary121853
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

Your last paragraph is absolutely wrong. CEO's implement pieces of strategy everyday that are not 100% their idea. You are right, if they cant buyin then they resign or forced out. Strategically speaking, im sure BoT, Shrum and Weiberg provide Gundy all the strategic direction needed. If a strategic direction change is one Gundy cant live with he has option(s). You have a perfect example with what transpired in Norman. There were strategic differences and you saw the outcome. At a tactical level HC are forced to make hire/fire decisions every year.


Who said anything about a CEO or HC not open to ideas? Or only implementing ideas he and he alone developed? I said "unwanted changes FORCED upon a CEO or HC". Gundy, just like every HC (or CEO) listens to and implements ideas for change presented to them by subordinates all the time. Gundy himself has said he's gotten ideas from his assistants.

Now, give me an example of a "strategic" change to a football program (that's not budget, funding, media or conference related) that' should be left in part or total responsibility of someone other than the HC. Then, give me the strategic change you're seeking for OSU and who should the concept of such change come from.

As for what happened in Norman, I not sure what you're talking about and no factual knowledge of what happened, and neither do you, you're just speculating. Regardless, what did or didn't happen in Norman certainly is not the type of "change in strategic direction" you feel must be implemented in Stillwater.


1st Paragraph - I never said or intimated that Gundy 'does not' listen to input. To the contrary, Im confident he does (from top and btm). Rather, I said Gundy has demonstrated before a resistance to change. I never said/intimated that Gundy has a wholesale resistance to change character.
2nd Paragraph-Recruiting Philosophy (strategic to tactical levels)
3rd Paragraph-A strategic example ... not advocating for same in Stillwater


Every HC resists and rejects change he either doesn't think will work, doesn't for the budget or is contrary or in conflict with other program principles. Gundy is no different.

You think recruiting philosophy is strategic and subject to input fro someone not in the program? That is beyond absurd. You want a coach to potentially recruit athletes he doesn't want? Or don't fit? Or that would just waste his time? That's totally absurd. You need to get off this site, turn off ESPN, forget football, and never utter another word about OSU football.

I still have no idea what you're talking about in Norman. What is it that happened? .
Gumby .... you are off your rocker! You clearly are a block head (along with Cali). What part(s) of 'simple' dont you get. Whether you agree or not.....
1. Of course other HC resist (or embrace) change. I believe Gundy to be more resistent to change to the detriment of the program. My belief .... period ...end of story .... you think otherwise, so be it... move on Partner
2. Yes, I think recruiting philosophy to be of strategic importance (tied to budget etc).... No, I dont think a HC should recruit anybody they believe to not be a fit .... where in the hell did I say anything close to that ...Do I believe Gundy could broaden his recruiting philosophy and get more intimately involved (like other HC) .... absolutely Yes I do .... end of story... my belief....based on very trusted sources/direct dialogues...Right back at you Partner regarding ESPN, .. Mr Know-it-All .... Am I suppose to accept you as Mr OSU FB ....
3. Norman? OU going SEC without Riley ..... a very simple example of strategic vs tactical decision(s) ... the fact i have to spell that out for you tells me everything I need to know about you ...

conversations with you/cali clearly have to be exercises in futility for anybody ..
OSUgary
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
CaliforniaCowboy
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gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

Gumby 3, Gary 0

you need facts Gary, not "firmly believe" and "stand by" my unsubstantiated claims

It's almost halftime, you can still rally


Cali ...you as a any type score keeper is beyond funny ..
I try to please
CaliforniaCowboy
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TUSKAPOKE said:

You can defend Gundy and the lack of conference championships all you want. I want more and expect more. You can accept "almost" but not me. Gundy indicated he listened to the fans Saturday when he went for it on 4th down. He will listen if the right $$$ fans, Shrum and Weiberg discuss it. The Cowboy Culture needs a shot of adrenaline or it will stagnate. Recruiting currently looks like it needs to improve greatly in the next two weeks. Who recruits? Gundy is paid as CEO to run it all. So get it done because, with the exception of last year, the program has plateaued and is not getting better. I am watching Jelani Woods catch 8 passes in the MNF game. Remember him? Maybe some new eyes on things would help and make sure complacency has not developed.
and this fan was yelling kick the FG, kick the FG, take the points, take the points... there was not telling if we get a chance for a lot more with our QB out.

of all time NOT to kick the FG... SMH.

It could have been a whole different ending if we had those 3 points. We would not have needed to try for that 2pt conversion, so 4 extra points makes it 24-23 in the 4th, and us only needing to play for FG position, not a TD.
CaliforniaCowboy
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gary121853 said:



Gumby .... you are off your rocker! You clearly are a block head (along with Cali).
Gary, ,leave me out or your bashing and name calling. I wasn't even in this thread where you took a thumping.

don't blame me.

I did not do anything in this thread to be called names by you. Stick to the topic, not how you feel about others
gary121853
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
1. Gundy & change? - being open to change/ideas is 1 thing ... being resistent to 'acting' on change is another
My opinion Gundy is resistent to necessary/important changes to advance the program. For gosh sakes there are extensive behavioral studies that show as folks age 'change' is difficult. I am not suggesting that is the situation with Gundy ... rather, my opinion is not without possible merit. AD routine input on recruiting philosophy? NO
AD input on recruiting philosophy? YES, if my HC got budget increases for recruiting and recruiting performance(s) dont get better, but get worse? .... I am in my HC offices next morning asking the hard questions?
If the AD just gave the HC a bigger recruiting budget ...and that increased my Athletic Dept fixed/variable costs .... yet, AD see(s) zero improvement in recruiting results ... I am not a happy AD ... Im not a happy Board Member with my CEO
2. Gundy personal involvement w/recruiting? - Based on recruiting 'results' the entire Gundy tenure, if he is personally/intimately nvolved.... IT'S NOT ENOUGH...just like the decade of issues on the OL .... Gundy has allowed his entire program to underperform on recruiting and OL
3. HC & Running 'their' program? I think we are debating where the 'line in the sand' is drawn for the HC and their respective program. IMO, when the same issues (ex: OL, recruiting, Player(s)) continue to present themselves, as a CEO/AD, I am going to cross that 'line in the sand' and the HC no longer has his exclusive domain. So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve.

To close, I am certain Gundy/Staff continuously evaluate each area of the program. IMO, many key evaluation efforts and subsequent 'changes' if any, have failed miserably and been allowed to continue WAY to long. Those failures in judgement have caused me to seriously question Gundy's ability to assess, evaluate and make the neccessary changes to fix the issue(s)....IMO.
OSUgary
gary121853
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gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
1. Gundy & change? - being open to change/ideas is 1 thing ... being resistent to 'acting' on change is another
My opinion Gundy is resistent to necessary/important changes to advance the program. For gosh sakes there are extensive behavioral studies that show as folks age 'change' is difficult. I am not suggesting that is the situation with Gundy ... rather, my opinion is not without possible merit. AD routine input on recruiting philosophy? NO
AD input on recruiting philosophy? YES, if my HC got budget increases for recruiting and recruiting performance(s) dont get better, but get worse? .... I am in my HC offices next morning asking the hard questions?
If the AD just gave the HC a bigger recruiting budget ...and that increased my Athletic Dept fixed/variable costs .... yet, AD see(s) zero improvement in recruiting results ... I am not a happy AD ... Im not a happy Board Member with my CEO
2. Gundy personal involvement w/recruiting? - Based on recruiting 'results' the entire Gundy tenure, if he is personally/intimately nvolved.... IT'S NOT ENOUGH...just like the decade of issues on the OL .... Gundy has allowed his entire program to underperform on recruiting and OL
3. HC & Running 'their' program? I think we are debating where the 'line in the sand' is drawn for the HC and their respective program. IMO, when the same issues (ex: OL, recruiting, Player(s)) continue to present themselves, as a CEO/AD, I am going to cross that 'line in the sand' and the HC no longer has his exclusive domain. So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve.

To close, I am certain Gundy/Staff continuously evaluate each area of the program. IMO, many key evaluation efforts and subsequent 'changes' if any, have failed miserably and been allowed to continue WAY to long. Those failures in judgement have caused me to seriously question Gundy's ability to assess, evaluate and make the neccessary changes to fix the issue(s)....IMO.
I dont need to find 2 other Posters that agree with my position on Gundy and his reticence to change. I hear it regularly from non-poster(s).... not to mention media members who have referenced the same in Podcasts and Publications etc ...
OSUgary
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
1. Gundy & change? - being open to change/ideas is 1 thing ... being resistent to 'acting' on change is another
My opinion Gundy is resistent to necessary/important changes to advance the program. For gosh sakes there are extensive behavioral studies that show as folks age 'change' is difficult. I am not suggesting that is the situation with Gundy ... rather, my opinion is not without possible merit. AD routine input on recruiting philosophy? NO
AD input on recruiting philosophy? YES, if my HC got budget increases for recruiting and recruiting performance(s) dont get better, but get worse? .... I am in my HC offices next morning asking the hard questions?
If the AD just gave the HC a bigger recruiting budget ...and that increased my Athletic Dept fixed/variable costs .... yet, AD see(s) zero improvement in recruiting results ... I am not a happy AD ... Im not a happy Board Member with my CEO
2. Gundy personal involvement w/recruiting? - Based on recruiting 'results' the entire Gundy tenure, if he is personally/intimately nvolved.... IT'S NOT ENOUGH...just like the decade of issues on the OL .... Gundy has allowed his entire program to underperform on recruiting and OL
3. HC & Running 'their' program? I think we are debating where the 'line in the sand' is drawn for the HC and their respective program. IMO, when the same issues (ex: OL, recruiting, Player(s)) continue to present themselves, as a CEO/AD, I am going to cross that 'line in the sand' and the HC no longer has his exclusive domain. So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve.

To close, I am certain Gundy/Staff continuously evaluate each area of the program. IMO, many key evaluation efforts and subsequent 'changes' if any, have failed miserably and been allowed to continue WAY to long. Those failures in judgement have caused me to seriously question Gundy's ability to assess, evaluate and make the neccessary changes to fix the issue(s)....IMO.


Make up your mind. You just stated Gundy has failed miserably and you question his ability to evaluate and make changes. Why the heck are you not wanting him fired?

I do think age has an impact. On your friggin sanity.
gary121853
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
1. Gundy & change? - being open to change/ideas is 1 thing ... being resistent to 'acting' on change is another
My opinion Gundy is resistent to necessary/important changes to advance the program. For gosh sakes there are extensive behavioral studies that show as folks age 'change' is difficult. I am not suggesting that is the situation with Gundy ... rather, my opinion is not without possible merit. AD routine input on recruiting philosophy? NO
AD input on recruiting philosophy? YES, if my HC got budget increases for recruiting and recruiting performance(s) dont get better, but get worse? .... I am in my HC offices next morning asking the hard questions?
If the AD just gave the HC a bigger recruiting budget ...and that increased my Athletic Dept fixed/variable costs .... yet, AD see(s) zero improvement in recruiting results ... I am not a happy AD ... Im not a happy Board Member with my CEO
2. Gundy personal involvement w/recruiting? - Based on recruiting 'results' the entire Gundy tenure, if he is personally/intimately nvolved.... IT'S NOT ENOUGH...just like the decade of issues on the OL .... Gundy has allowed his entire program to underperform on recruiting and OL
3. HC & Running 'their' program? I think we are debating where the 'line in the sand' is drawn for the HC and their respective program. IMO, when the same issues (ex: OL, recruiting, Player(s)) continue to present themselves, as a CEO/AD, I am going to cross that 'line in the sand' and the HC no longer has his exclusive domain. So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve.

To close, I am certain Gundy/Staff continuously evaluate each area of the program. IMO, many key evaluation efforts and subsequent 'changes' if any, have failed miserably and been allowed to continue WAY to long. Those failures in judgement have caused me to seriously question Gundy's ability to assess, evaluate and make the neccessary changes to fix the issue(s)....IMO.


Make up your mind. You just stated Gundy has failed miserably and you question his ability to evaluate and make changes. Why the heck are you not wanting him fired?

I do think age has an impact. On your friggin sanity.
I will end with this .... I know exactly what i would do ....
OSUgary
CaliforniaCowboy
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4-0
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
1. Gundy & change? - being open to change/ideas is 1 thing ... being resistent to 'acting' on change is another
My opinion Gundy is resistent to necessary/important changes to advance the program. For gosh sakes there are extensive behavioral studies that show as folks age 'change' is difficult. I am not suggesting that is the situation with Gundy ... rather, my opinion is not without possible merit. AD routine input on recruiting philosophy? NO
AD input on recruiting philosophy? YES, if my HC got budget increases for recruiting and recruiting performance(s) dont get better, but get worse? .... I am in my HC offices next morning asking the hard questions?
If the AD just gave the HC a bigger recruiting budget ...and that increased my Athletic Dept fixed/variable costs .... yet, AD see(s) zero improvement in recruiting results ... I am not a happy AD ... Im not a happy Board Member with my CEO
2. Gundy personal involvement w/recruiting? - Based on recruiting 'results' the entire Gundy tenure, if he is personally/intimately nvolved.... IT'S NOT ENOUGH...just like the decade of issues on the OL .... Gundy has allowed his entire program to underperform on recruiting and OL
3. HC & Running 'their' program? I think we are debating where the 'line in the sand' is drawn for the HC and their respective program. IMO, when the same issues (ex: OL, recruiting, Player(s)) continue to present themselves, as a CEO/AD, I am going to cross that 'line in the sand' and the HC no longer has his exclusive domain. So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve.

To close, I am certain Gundy/Staff continuously evaluate each area of the program. IMO, many key evaluation efforts and subsequent 'changes' if any, have failed miserably and been allowed to continue WAY to long. Those failures in judgement have caused me to seriously question Gundy's ability to assess, evaluate and make the neccessary changes to fix the issue(s)....IMO.


Make up your mind. You just stated Gundy has failed miserably and you question his ability to evaluate and make changes. Why the heck are you not wanting him fired?

I do think age has an impact. On your friggin sanity.
I will end with this .... I know exactly what i would do ....


Let me see. Some yo-yo with no coaching experience, has never called a play, never recruited an athlete, never put together a game-plan has the answers on how to improve the results of a team that's won more games in the last ten years than 120 of the 130 teams in the FBS. Sounds right, LOL.
CaliforniaCowboy
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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gary121853 said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
1. Gundy & change? - being open to change/ideas is 1 thing ... being resistent to 'acting' on change is another
My opinion Gundy is resistent to necessary/important changes to advance the program. For gosh sakes there are extensive behavioral studies that show as folks age 'change' is difficult. I am not suggesting that is the situation with Gundy ... rather, my opinion is not without possible merit. AD routine input on recruiting philosophy? NO
AD input on recruiting philosophy? YES, if my HC got budget increases for recruiting and recruiting performance(s) dont get better, but get worse? .... I am in my HC offices next morning asking the hard questions?
If the AD just gave the HC a bigger recruiting budget ...and that increased my Athletic Dept fixed/variable costs .... yet, AD see(s) zero improvement in recruiting results ... I am not a happy AD ... Im not a happy Board Member with my CEO
2. Gundy personal involvement w/recruiting? - Based on recruiting 'results' the entire Gundy tenure, if he is personally/intimately nvolved.... IT'S NOT ENOUGH...just like the decade of issues on the OL .... Gundy has allowed his entire program to underperform on recruiting and OL
3. HC & Running 'their' program? I think we are debating where the 'line in the sand' is drawn for the HC and their respective program. IMO, when the same issues (ex: OL, recruiting, Player(s)) continue to present themselves, as a CEO/AD, I am going to cross that 'line in the sand' and the HC no longer has his exclusive domain. So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve.

To close, I am certain Gundy/Staff continuously evaluate each area of the program. IMO, many key evaluation efforts and subsequent 'changes' if any, have failed miserably and been allowed to continue WAY to long. Those failures in judgement have caused me to seriously question Gundy's ability to assess, evaluate and make the neccessary changes to fix the issue(s)....IMO.
I dont need to find 2 other Posters that agree with my position on Gundy and his reticence to change. I hear it regularly from non-poster(s).... not to mention media members who have referenced the same in Podcasts and Publications etc ...


I just re- read this. You want Shrum to solve our problems with the OL?

I'm really sorry Gary. I'll have to apologize in advance. I will tell you what I'd tell anyone to their face that made that statement - you're a moron. And I hope you realize, that statement will live in infamy.
gary121853
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
1. Gundy & change? - being open to change/ideas is 1 thing ... being resistent to 'acting' on change is another
My opinion Gundy is resistent to necessary/important changes to advance the program. For gosh sakes there are extensive behavioral studies that show as folks age 'change' is difficult. I am not suggesting that is the situation with Gundy ... rather, my opinion is not without possible merit. AD routine input on recruiting philosophy? NO
AD input on recruiting philosophy? YES, if my HC got budget increases for recruiting and recruiting performance(s) dont get better, but get worse? .... I am in my HC offices next morning asking the hard questions?
If the AD just gave the HC a bigger recruiting budget ...and that increased my Athletic Dept fixed/variable costs .... yet, AD see(s) zero improvement in recruiting results ... I am not a happy AD ... Im not a happy Board Member with my CEO
2. Gundy personal involvement w/recruiting? - Based on recruiting 'results' the entire Gundy tenure, if he is personally/intimately nvolved.... IT'S NOT ENOUGH...just like the decade of issues on the OL .... Gundy has allowed his entire program to underperform on recruiting and OL
3. HC & Running 'their' program? I think we are debating where the 'line in the sand' is drawn for the HC and their respective program. IMO, when the same issues (ex: OL, recruiting, Player(s)) continue to present themselves, as a CEO/AD, I am going to cross that 'line in the sand' and the HC no longer has his exclusive domain. So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve.

To close, I am certain Gundy/Staff continuously evaluate each area of the program. IMO, many key evaluation efforts and subsequent 'changes' if any, have failed miserably and been allowed to continue WAY to long. Those failures in judgement have caused me to seriously question Gundy's ability to assess, evaluate and make the neccessary changes to fix the issue(s)....IMO.
I dont need to find 2 other Posters that agree with my position on Gundy and his reticence to change. I hear it regularly from non-poster(s).... not to mention media members who have referenced the same in Podcasts and Publications etc ...


I just re- read this. You want Shrum to solve our problems with the OL?

I'm really sorry Gary. I'll have to apologize in advance. I will tell you what I'd tell anyone to their face that made that statement - you're a moron. And I hope you realize, that statement will live in infamy.
Gumby, im sorry too ... you my friend are a complete an utter moron...in fact that label is too generous.... you are an idiot and a moron ... is it that impossible for you to read and understand what people write ... unbelievable!!
Do I expect Shrum-BoT and Weiberg to weigh in heavily if they believe the decision/direction/moves that Gundy intends to make are incorrect .... then absolutely they are obligated to make their opinions known to Gundy... period... what part of that stmt do you know understand. If you disagree then so be it .....but, if you cant read and understand, then for all things holy... stop putting your own unintelligent spin on what others write ...what rock did you crawl out from under ...?
OSUgary
gary121853
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
1. Gundy & change? - being open to change/ideas is 1 thing ... being resistent to 'acting' on change is another
My opinion Gundy is resistent to necessary/important changes to advance the program. For gosh sakes there are extensive behavioral studies that show as folks age 'change' is difficult. I am not suggesting that is the situation with Gundy ... rather, my opinion is not without possible merit. AD routine input on recruiting philosophy? NO
AD input on recruiting philosophy? YES, if my HC got budget increases for recruiting and recruiting performance(s) dont get better, but get worse? .... I am in my HC offices next morning asking the hard questions?
If the AD just gave the HC a bigger recruiting budget ...and that increased my Athletic Dept fixed/variable costs .... yet, AD see(s) zero improvement in recruiting results ... I am not a happy AD ... Im not a happy Board Member with my CEO
2. Gundy personal involvement w/recruiting? - Based on recruiting 'results' the entire Gundy tenure, if he is personally/intimately nvolved.... IT'S NOT ENOUGH...just like the decade of issues on the OL .... Gundy has allowed his entire program to underperform on recruiting and OL
3. HC & Running 'their' program? I think we are debating where the 'line in the sand' is drawn for the HC and their respective program. IMO, when the same issues (ex: OL, recruiting, Player(s)) continue to present themselves, as a CEO/AD, I am going to cross that 'line in the sand' and the HC no longer has his exclusive domain. So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve.

To close, I am certain Gundy/Staff continuously evaluate each area of the program. IMO, many key evaluation efforts and subsequent 'changes' if any, have failed miserably and been allowed to continue WAY to long. Those failures in judgement have caused me to seriously question Gundy's ability to assess, evaluate and make the neccessary changes to fix the issue(s)....IMO.
I dont need to find 2 other Posters that agree with my position on Gundy and his reticence to change. I hear it regularly from non-poster(s).... not to mention media members who have referenced the same in Podcasts and Publications etc ...


I just re- read this. You want Shrum to solve our problems with the OL?

I'm really sorry Gary. I'll have to apologize in advance. I will tell you what I'd tell anyone to their face that made that statement - you're a moron. And I hope you realize, that statement will live in infamy.
I happen to believe Gundy does NOT have exclusive dominion over the OSU FB program ... You happen to believe otherwise .... be done with it and go back under your rock ..
OSUgary
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
1. Gundy & change? - being open to change/ideas is 1 thing ... being resistent to 'acting' on change is another
My opinion Gundy is resistent to necessary/important changes to advance the program. For gosh sakes there are extensive behavioral studies that show as folks age 'change' is difficult. I am not suggesting that is the situation with Gundy ... rather, my opinion is not without possible merit. AD routine input on recruiting philosophy? NO
AD input on recruiting philosophy? YES, if my HC got budget increases for recruiting and recruiting performance(s) dont get better, but get worse? .... I am in my HC offices next morning asking the hard questions?
If the AD just gave the HC a bigger recruiting budget ...and that increased my Athletic Dept fixed/variable costs .... yet, AD see(s) zero improvement in recruiting results ... I am not a happy AD ... Im not a happy Board Member with my CEO
2. Gundy personal involvement w/recruiting? - Based on recruiting 'results' the entire Gundy tenure, if he is personally/intimately nvolved.... IT'S NOT ENOUGH...just like the decade of issues on the OL .... Gundy has allowed his entire program to underperform on recruiting and OL
3. HC & Running 'their' program? I think we are debating where the 'line in the sand' is drawn for the HC and their respective program. IMO, when the same issues (ex: OL, recruiting, Player(s)) continue to present themselves, as a CEO/AD, I am going to cross that 'line in the sand' and the HC no longer has his exclusive domain. So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve.

To close, I am certain Gundy/Staff continuously evaluate each area of the program. IMO, many key evaluation efforts and subsequent 'changes' if any, have failed miserably and been allowed to continue WAY to long. Those failures in judgement have caused me to seriously question Gundy's ability to assess, evaluate and make the neccessary changes to fix the issue(s)....IMO.
I dont need to find 2 other Posters that agree with my position on Gundy and his reticence to change. I hear it regularly from non-poster(s).... not to mention media members who have referenced the same in Podcasts and Publications etc ...


I just re- read this. You want Shrum to solve our problems with the OL?

I'm really sorry Gary. I'll have to apologize in advance. I will tell you what I'd tell anyone to their face that made that statement - you're a moron. And I hope you realize, that statement will live in infamy.
Gumby, im sorry too ... you my friend are a complete an utter moron...in fact that label is too generous.... you are an idiot and a moron ... is it that impossible for you to read and understand what people write ... unbelievable!!
Do I expect Shrum-BoT and Weiberg to weigh in heavily if they believe the decision/direction/moves that Gundy intends to make are incorrect .... then absolutely they are obligated to make their opinions known to Gundy... period... what part of that stmt do you know understand. If you disagree then so be it .....but, if you cant read and understand, then for all things holy... stop putting your own unintelligent spin on what others write ...what rock did you crawl out from under ...?


Gary, I comment on what I read. To wit:

"So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve."

In short, it's Shrum's problem to solve. You want Dr Shrum to solve the OL problem. Wow. Just wow.

Now if you said - Dr Shrum should tell Gundy to solve the OL problem or else - I wouldn't be so hard on you. I wouldn't agree with it, but at least it borders on a semi- rational thought. But that's not what you said. You said it's Shrum's problem to solve. .
gary121853
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
1. Gundy & change? - being open to change/ideas is 1 thing ... being resistent to 'acting' on change is another
My opinion Gundy is resistent to necessary/important changes to advance the program. For gosh sakes there are extensive behavioral studies that show as folks age 'change' is difficult. I am not suggesting that is the situation with Gundy ... rather, my opinion is not without possible merit. AD routine input on recruiting philosophy? NO
AD input on recruiting philosophy? YES, if my HC got budget increases for recruiting and recruiting performance(s) dont get better, but get worse? .... I am in my HC offices next morning asking the hard questions?
If the AD just gave the HC a bigger recruiting budget ...and that increased my Athletic Dept fixed/variable costs .... yet, AD see(s) zero improvement in recruiting results ... I am not a happy AD ... Im not a happy Board Member with my CEO
2. Gundy personal involvement w/recruiting? - Based on recruiting 'results' the entire Gundy tenure, if he is personally/intimately nvolved.... IT'S NOT ENOUGH...just like the decade of issues on the OL .... Gundy has allowed his entire program to underperform on recruiting and OL
3. HC & Running 'their' program? I think we are debating where the 'line in the sand' is drawn for the HC and their respective program. IMO, when the same issues (ex: OL, recruiting, Player(s)) continue to present themselves, as a CEO/AD, I am going to cross that 'line in the sand' and the HC no longer has his exclusive domain. So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve.

To close, I am certain Gundy/Staff continuously evaluate each area of the program. IMO, many key evaluation efforts and subsequent 'changes' if any, have failed miserably and been allowed to continue WAY to long. Those failures in judgement have caused me to seriously question Gundy's ability to assess, evaluate and make the neccessary changes to fix the issue(s)....IMO.
I dont need to find 2 other Posters that agree with my position on Gundy and his reticence to change. I hear it regularly from non-poster(s).... not to mention media members who have referenced the same in Podcasts and Publications etc ...


I just re- read this. You want Shrum to solve our problems with the OL?

I'm really sorry Gary. I'll have to apologize in advance. I will tell you what I'd tell anyone to their face that made that statement - you're a moron. And I hope you realize, that statement will live in infamy.
Gumby, im sorry too ... you my friend are a complete an utter moron...in fact that label is too generous.... you are an idiot and a moron ... is it that impossible for you to read and understand what people write ... unbelievable!!
Do I expect Shrum-BoT and Weiberg to weigh in heavily if they believe the decision/direction/moves that Gundy intends to make are incorrect .... then absolutely they are obligated to make their opinions known to Gundy... period... what part of that stmt do you know understand. If you disagree then so be it .....but, if you cant read and understand, then for all things holy... stop putting your own unintelligent spin on what others write ...what rock did you crawl out from under ...?


Gary, I comment on what I read. To wit:

"So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve."

In short, it's Shrum's problem to solve. You want Dr Shrum to solve the OL problem. Wow. Just wow.

Now if you said - Dr Shrum should tell Gundy to solve the OL problem or else - I wouldn't be so hard on you. I wouldn't agree with it, but at least it borders on a semi- rational thought. But that's not what you said. You said it's Shrum's problem to solve. .


Dr Shrum/Weiberg/BoT ..."Mike your approach to fixing the OL has not worked for a decade(+)....nor have your recruiting performances, even after numorous budget improvements....you need to radically rethink how you are going to solve those issues by next season ... we want you to propose options and reviewed/approved before proceeding further..."

Something along that line ... here is the original point....(that you have completely lost sight of along time ago) ....Gundy DOES NOT (never will) possess total dominion over the FB program.
But. apparently you fall into that group that bows down at the Gundy thrown and thinks he does own the program and all levels of decision making. Good luck with that philosophy! To date its yielded 1 Championship in 2 decades .
OSUgary
GumbyFromPokeyLand
How long do you want to ignore this user?
gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
1. Gundy & change? - being open to change/ideas is 1 thing ... being resistent to 'acting' on change is another
My opinion Gundy is resistent to necessary/important changes to advance the program. For gosh sakes there are extensive behavioral studies that show as folks age 'change' is difficult. I am not suggesting that is the situation with Gundy ... rather, my opinion is not without possible merit. AD routine input on recruiting philosophy? NO
AD input on recruiting philosophy? YES, if my HC got budget increases for recruiting and recruiting performance(s) dont get better, but get worse? .... I am in my HC offices next morning asking the hard questions?
If the AD just gave the HC a bigger recruiting budget ...and that increased my Athletic Dept fixed/variable costs .... yet, AD see(s) zero improvement in recruiting results ... I am not a happy AD ... Im not a happy Board Member with my CEO
2. Gundy personal involvement w/recruiting? - Based on recruiting 'results' the entire Gundy tenure, if he is personally/intimately nvolved.... IT'S NOT ENOUGH...just like the decade of issues on the OL .... Gundy has allowed his entire program to underperform on recruiting and OL
3. HC & Running 'their' program? I think we are debating where the 'line in the sand' is drawn for the HC and their respective program. IMO, when the same issues (ex: OL, recruiting, Player(s)) continue to present themselves, as a CEO/AD, I am going to cross that 'line in the sand' and the HC no longer has his exclusive domain. So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve.

To close, I am certain Gundy/Staff continuously evaluate each area of the program. IMO, many key evaluation efforts and subsequent 'changes' if any, have failed miserably and been allowed to continue WAY to long. Those failures in judgement have caused me to seriously question Gundy's ability to assess, evaluate and make the neccessary changes to fix the issue(s)....IMO.
I dont need to find 2 other Posters that agree with my position on Gundy and his reticence to change. I hear it regularly from non-poster(s).... not to mention media members who have referenced the same in Podcasts and Publications etc ...


I just re- read this. You want Shrum to solve our problems with the OL?

I'm really sorry Gary. I'll have to apologize in advance. I will tell you what I'd tell anyone to their face that made that statement - you're a moron. And I hope you realize, that statement will live in infamy.
Gumby, im sorry too ... you my friend are a complete an utter moron...in fact that label is too generous.... you are an idiot and a moron ... is it that impossible for you to read and understand what people write ... unbelievable!!
Do I expect Shrum-BoT and Weiberg to weigh in heavily if they believe the decision/direction/moves that Gundy intends to make are incorrect .... then absolutely they are obligated to make their opinions known to Gundy... period... what part of that stmt do you know understand. If you disagree then so be it .....but, if you cant read and understand, then for all things holy... stop putting your own unintelligent spin on what others write ...what rock did you crawl out from under ...?


Gary, I comment on what I read. To wit:

"So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve."

In short, it's Shrum's problem to solve. You want Dr Shrum to solve the OL problem. Wow. Just wow.

Now if you said - Dr Shrum should tell Gundy to solve the OL problem or else - I wouldn't be so hard on you. I wouldn't agree with it, but at least it borders on a semi- rational thought. But that's not what you said. You said it's Shrum's problem to solve. .


Dr Shrum/Weiberg/BoT ..."Mike your approach to fixing the OL has not worked for a decade(+)....nor have your recruiting performances, even after numorous budget improvements....you need to radically rethink how you are going to solve those issues by next season ... we want you to propose options and reviewed/approved before proceeding further..."

Something along that line ... here is the original point....(that you have completely lost sight of along time ago) ....Gundy DOES NOT (never will) possess total dominion over the FB program.
But. apparently you fall into that group that bows down at the Gundy thrown and thinks he does own the program and all levels of decision making. Good luck with that philosophy! To date its yielded 1 Championship in 2 decades .


Here's where you're all wet. Soaking wet. In fact drowning. Shrum/Weiberg don't care about the OL. Or the RBs. Or the defense. Or where our offense ranks. Or how many points we score. Or how we rank in recruiting. They couldn't care less. And because they couldn't care less, they are not about to intervene to fix something they don't care about. The Pres and AD only care about 4 things as it relates to a sport.
1. Health and well-being of the student athletes.
2. Citizenship of the student athletes
3. Academic performance of the student athletes.
4. W/L record and competing for championships in a sport relative to the competition and environment in which they compete.

It's the HC job to deliver acceptable results in those areas. Not produce top-ranked recruiting classes. Not lead the country in yards gained or tackles for loss. Not produce all-Americans or Heisman candidates. That crap is for the goofy fans. Administrators (like BODs) are interested in results, not meaningless side-shows or the building blocks to success. Just results.
gary121853
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

gary121853 said:

gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Gundy is clearly open to change. I'll bet you can't get 2 other posters that would agree with you that Gundy has a general unwillingness to change that's detrimental to the program.

Until just now, you've not specifically indicated what changes to recruiting you're demanding. So you think recruiting philosophy is not the sole responsibility of the HC and his staff? Not one HC in the country looks to his AD for recruiting philosophy. The HC asks for a recruiting budget, and the AD provides the budget. Maybe it's what the HC wants, maybe not. But the HC implements his recruiting philosophy and strategy utilizing the budget provided by the AD.

Apparently you seem to think more personal involvement by Gundy will result in a better recruiting ranking. I know there are rules regarding the number of times a HC can contact and/or visit a recruit. How do you know he doesn't maximize those opportunities? Perhaps he's not provided the budget to personally visit every recruit the allowable maximum number of times. Who knows? One thing I do know. Gundy and his staff are in a continuous mode of examining how they can sign/attract more of their top targets. Do you think someone not in the football program has better sense of how to recruit than a guy that's been doing it for 30+ years? Than I guy that lives it day in day out. You can't be serious.

I'm struggling to understand about what you think happened in Norman that would have resulted in forcing their HC to run his program contrary to how he wanted to run it. I guess maybe Riley didn't like the idea of playing in the SEC, but that's an issue of whether he thought OU could compete (and that it might hurt his resume) not an issue of how to run his program.

At the end of the day, you seem to think somebody should force Gundy to change something. One, who is gonna force him? Two, who gets to decide what needs to change? Three, what precisely needs to change that hasn't already been evaluated by Gundy and his staff countless times over the years and why it should change?
1. Gundy & change? - being open to change/ideas is 1 thing ... being resistent to 'acting' on change is another
My opinion Gundy is resistent to necessary/important changes to advance the program. For gosh sakes there are extensive behavioral studies that show as folks age 'change' is difficult. I am not suggesting that is the situation with Gundy ... rather, my opinion is not without possible merit. AD routine input on recruiting philosophy? NO
AD input on recruiting philosophy? YES, if my HC got budget increases for recruiting and recruiting performance(s) dont get better, but get worse? .... I am in my HC offices next morning asking the hard questions?
If the AD just gave the HC a bigger recruiting budget ...and that increased my Athletic Dept fixed/variable costs .... yet, AD see(s) zero improvement in recruiting results ... I am not a happy AD ... Im not a happy Board Member with my CEO
2. Gundy personal involvement w/recruiting? - Based on recruiting 'results' the entire Gundy tenure, if he is personally/intimately nvolved.... IT'S NOT ENOUGH...just like the decade of issues on the OL .... Gundy has allowed his entire program to underperform on recruiting and OL
3. HC & Running 'their' program? I think we are debating where the 'line in the sand' is drawn for the HC and their respective program. IMO, when the same issues (ex: OL, recruiting, Player(s)) continue to present themselves, as a CEO/AD, I am going to cross that 'line in the sand' and the HC no longer has his exclusive domain. So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve.

To close, I am certain Gundy/Staff continuously evaluate each area of the program. IMO, many key evaluation efforts and subsequent 'changes' if any, have failed miserably and been allowed to continue WAY to long. Those failures in judgement have caused me to seriously question Gundy's ability to assess, evaluate and make the neccessary changes to fix the issue(s)....IMO.
I dont need to find 2 other Posters that agree with my position on Gundy and his reticence to change. I hear it regularly from non-poster(s).... not to mention media members who have referenced the same in Podcasts and Publications etc ...


I just re- read this. You want Shrum to solve our problems with the OL?

I'm really sorry Gary. I'll have to apologize in advance. I will tell you what I'd tell anyone to their face that made that statement - you're a moron. And I hope you realize, that statement will live in infamy.
Gumby, im sorry too ... you my friend are a complete an utter moron...in fact that label is too generous.... you are an idiot and a moron ... is it that impossible for you to read and understand what people write ... unbelievable!!
Do I expect Shrum-BoT and Weiberg to weigh in heavily if they believe the decision/direction/moves that Gundy intends to make are incorrect .... then absolutely they are obligated to make their opinions known to Gundy... period... what part of that stmt do you know understand. If you disagree then so be it .....but, if you cant read and understand, then for all things holy... stop putting your own unintelligent spin on what others write ...what rock did you crawl out from under ...?


Gary, I comment on what I read. To wit:

"So, who forces changes that may conflict with the HC .... i can only assume Weiberg, Donors, Shrum make it their problem to solve."

In short, it's Shrum's problem to solve. You want Dr Shrum to solve the OL problem. Wow. Just wow.

Now if you said - Dr Shrum should tell Gundy to solve the OL problem or else - I wouldn't be so hard on you. I wouldn't agree with it, but at least it borders on a semi- rational thought. But that's not what you said. You said it's Shrum's problem to solve. .


Dr Shrum/Weiberg/BoT ..."Mike your approach to fixing the OL has not worked for a decade(+)....nor have your recruiting performances, even after numorous budget improvements....you need to radically rethink how you are going to solve those issues by next season ... we want you to propose options and reviewed/approved before proceeding further..."

Something along that line ... here is the original point....(that you have completely lost sight of along time ago) ....Gundy DOES NOT (never will) possess total dominion over the FB program.
But. apparently you fall into that group that bows down at the Gundy thrown and thinks he does own the program and all levels of decision making. Good luck with that philosophy! To date its yielded 1 Championship in 2 decades .


Here's where you're all wet. Soaking wet. In fact drowning. Shrum/Weiberg don't care about the OL. Or the RBs. Or the defense. Or where our offense ranks. Or how many points we score. Or how we rank in recruiting. They couldn't care less. And because they couldn't care less, they are not about to intervene to fix something they don't care about. The Pres and AD only care about 4 things as it relates to a sport.
1. Health and well-being of the student athletes.
2. Citizenship of the student athletes
3. Academic performance of the student athletes.
4. W/L record and competing for championships in a sport relative to the competition and environment in which they compete.

It's the HC job to deliver acceptable results in those areas. Not produce top-ranked recruiting classes. Not lead the country in yards gained or tackles for loss. Not produce all-Americans or Heisman candidates. That crap is for the goofy fans. Administrators (like BODs) are interested in results, not meaningless side-shows or the building blocks to success. Just results.
I don't disagree with that summation. Related to #4, they care alot when revenue to support operations and capital investment is affected. When they sense the Fan base and Brand are not trending in the right direction. Gundy does not hold complete dominion over the FB program. If systemic unresolved problems/issues are negatively affecting achievement of those high-level goals.....they care alot....think they would care if Gundy or Staff were cheating?
OSUgary
CaliforniaCowboy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
well.... at least the forum can plainly see, it's not me causing this mindless bickering and name calling crap.

can you two wrap it up already?

Gumby 7, Gary 0
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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Of course they would care if Gundy cheated. Just like they'd care if he became a criminal. But NOT cheating is not a goal, it's a rule.
gary121853
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CaliforniaCowboy said:

well.... at least the forum can plainly see, it's not me causing this mindless bickering and name calling crap.

can you two wrap it up already?

Gumby 7, Gary 0
I thought you said to leave you out of it Cali? Not only is it laughable to think of you as anything close to a credible score keeper .... you also simply cant help continuing to invalidate yourself ..... lol...
OSUgary
gary121853
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Of course they would care if Gundy cheated. Just like they'd care if he became a criminal. But NOT cheating is not a goal, it's a rule.
Well you keep bowing down at the Gundy thrown and hand him the keys to the program because its clear you think he walks on water .... good luck with that ...
OSUgary
GumbyFromPokeyLand
How long do you want to ignore this user?
gary121853 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Of course they would care if Gundy cheated. Just like they'd care if he became a criminal. But NOT cheating is not a goal, it's a rule.
Well you keep bowing down at the Gundy thrown and hand him the keys to the program because its clear you think he walks on water .... good luck with that ...


Not even close Gary. He's the HC and can run his program as he sees fit until such time as he's not HC. And he'll be the HC until the AD and/or Prez want a new HC. Actually, I may be as frustrated as you. But until the results are unacceptable, as far as I'm concerned it's up to him run it the way he wants.
CaliforniaCowboy
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gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

well.... at least the forum can plainly see, it's not me causing this mindless bickering and name calling crap.

can you two wrap it up already?

Gumby 7, Gary 0
I thought you said to leave you out of it Cali? Not only is it laughable to think of you as anything close to a credible score keeper .... you also simply cant help continuing to invalidate yourself ..... lol...
I'm talking about the thread and the subject..... you, of course, are simply talking about me again.

you just don't seem to grasp this message board posting stuff about not making it a personal attack.

sorry if you don't like my score keeping, it is what it is... (factual). It's point-counterpoint. The score would be the same whether your moniker was attached to it or not, so it's not personal
gary121853
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

well.... at least the forum can plainly see, it's not me causing this mindless bickering and name calling crap.

can you two wrap it up already?

Gumby 7, Gary 0
I thought you said to leave you out of it Cali? Not only is it laughable to think of you as anything close to a credible score keeper .... you also simply cant help continuing to invalidate yourself ..... lol...
I'm talking about the thread and the subject..... you, of course, are simply talking about me again.

you just don't seem to grasp this message board posting stuff about not making it a personal attack.

sorry if you don't like my score keeping, it is what it is... (factual). It's point-counterpoint. The score would be the same whether your moniker was attached to it or not, so it's not personal


In your opinion your posts are not personal. When you reference anyone/anyway you make it personal. You have the strangest way of justifying yourself/actions....lol
OSUgary
CaliforniaCowboy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

well.... at least the forum can plainly see, it's not me causing this mindless bickering and name calling crap.

can you two wrap it up already?

Gumby 7, Gary 0
I thought you said to leave you out of it Cali? Not only is it laughable to think of you as anything close to a credible score keeper .... you also simply cant help continuing to invalidate yourself ..... lol...
I'm talking about the thread and the subject..... you, of course, are simply talking about me again.

you just don't seem to grasp this message board posting stuff about not making it a personal attack.

sorry if you don't like my score keeping, it is what it is... (factual). It's point-counterpoint. The score would be the same whether your moniker was attached to it or not, so it's not personal


In your opinion your posts are not personal. When you reference anyone/anyway you make it personal. You have the strangest way of justifying yourself/actions....lol
a reference to a person is NOT THE SAME as an attack on that person.... get a grip man, you don't get to redefine English.

Gary posts on the forum often. Is a reference to a person, it is not an attack on that person's being. (which you do)

gary121853
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

well.... at least the forum can plainly see, it's not me causing this mindless bickering and name calling crap.

can you two wrap it up already?

Gumby 7, Gary 0
I thought you said to leave you out of it Cali? Not only is it laughable to think of you as anything close to a credible score keeper .... you also simply cant help continuing to invalidate yourself ..... lol...
I'm talking about the thread and the subject..... you, of course, are simply talking about me again.

you just don't seem to grasp this message board posting stuff about not making it a personal attack.

sorry if you don't like my score keeping, it is what it is... (factual). It's point-counterpoint. The score would be the same whether your moniker was attached to it or not, so it's not personal


In your opinion your posts are not personal. When you reference anyone/anyway you make it personal. You have the strangest way of justifying yourself/actions....lol
a reference to a person is NOT THE SAME as an attack on that person.... get a grip man, you don't get to redefine English.

Gary posts on the forum often. Is a reference to a person, it is not an attack on that person's being. (which you do)





Sorry ...i have a different opinion ..
OSUgary
CaliforniaCowboy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

well.... at least the forum can plainly see, it's not me causing this mindless bickering and name calling crap.

can you two wrap it up already?

Gumby 7, Gary 0
I thought you said to leave you out of it Cali? Not only is it laughable to think of you as anything close to a credible score keeper .... you also simply cant help continuing to invalidate yourself ..... lol...
I'm talking about the thread and the subject..... you, of course, are simply talking about me again.

you just don't seem to grasp this message board posting stuff about not making it a personal attack.

sorry if you don't like my score keeping, it is what it is... (factual). It's point-counterpoint. The score would be the same whether your moniker was attached to it or not, so it's not personal


In your opinion your posts are not personal. When you reference anyone/anyway you make it personal. You have the strangest way of justifying yourself/actions....lol
a reference to a person is NOT THE SAME as an attack on that person.... get a grip man, you don't get to redefine English.

Gary posts on the forum often. Is a reference to a person, it is not an attack on that person's being. (which you do)





Sorry ...i have a different opinion ..

sorry, English definitions are not subject to your opinion. And your opinions in your recent threads have not really been worth the effort, assuming you actually put any effort into those whacky statements
gary121853
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

well.... at least the forum can plainly see, it's not me causing this mindless bickering and name calling crap.

can you two wrap it up already?

Gumby 7, Gary 0
I thought you said to leave you out of it Cali? Not only is it laughable to think of you as anything close to a credible score keeper .... you also simply cant help continuing to invalidate yourself ..... lol...
I'm talking about the thread and the subject..... you, of course, are simply talking about me again.

you just don't seem to grasp this message board posting stuff about not making it a personal attack.

sorry if you don't like my score keeping, it is what it is... (factual). It's point-counterpoint. The score would be the same whether your moniker was attached to it or not, so it's not personal


In your opinion your posts are not personal. When you reference anyone/anyway you make it personal. You have the strangest way of justifying yourself/actions....lol
a reference to a person is NOT THE SAME as an attack on that person.... get a grip man, you don't get to redefine English.

Gary posts on the forum often. Is a reference to a person, it is not an attack on that person's being. (which you do)





Sorry ...i have a different opinion ..

sorry, English definitions are not subject to your opinion. And your opinions in your recent threads have not really been worth the effort, assuming you actually put any effort into those whacky statements


I have different opinion ...
OSUgary
Duke Silver
How long do you want to ignore this user?
gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

gary121853 said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

well.... at least the forum can plainly see, it's not me causing this mindless bickering and name calling crap.

can you two wrap it up already?

Gumby 7, Gary 0
I thought you said to leave you out of it Cali? Not only is it laughable to think of you as anything close to a credible score keeper .... you also simply cant help continuing to invalidate yourself ..... lol...
I'm talking about the thread and the subject..... you, of course, are simply talking about me again.

you just don't seem to grasp this message board posting stuff about not making it a personal attack.

sorry if you don't like my score keeping, it is what it is... (factual). It's point-counterpoint. The score would be the same whether your moniker was attached to it or not, so it's not personal


In your opinion your posts are not personal. When you reference anyone/anyway you make it personal. You have the strangest way of justifying yourself/actions....lol
a reference to a person is NOT THE SAME as an attack on that person.... get a grip man, you don't get to redefine English.

Gary posts on the forum often. Is a reference to a person, it is not an attack on that person's being. (which you do)





Sorry ...i have a different opinion ..

sorry, English definitions are not subject to your opinion. And your opinions in your recent threads have not really been worth the effort, assuming you actually put any effort into those whacky statements


I have different opinion ...

CaliforniaCowboy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LOL.... kind of hard to try and converse with a guy who has opinions about opinions, and can't back any of it up. SMH
gary121853
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CaliforniaCowboy said:

LOL.... kind of hard to try and converse with a guy who has opinions about opinions, and can't back any of it up. SMH


Dont care to converse with you
OSUgary
 
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