My Opinion: What Should Happen to Oklahoma State in Realignment?

Yep....looks like you got it figured out as of today. The PAC-12, maybe soon to be the PAC-16 (PAC-20?), will make a move before the SEC. I agree they want to expand east for TV reasons and that is fine with me as long as the Texas schools come along for recruiting purposes. Bowlsby deserves all the criticism he is getting as he miserably failed the BIG 12, came in as commissioner with his knees already bent to the Shorthorns (and Sewerners somewhat) and did not make a move on the PAC-12 when they showed tremendous weakness. Let's get to where we are going and get there ASAP! Let's not play the Sewerners in anything unless we meet them going for a NC. I do not care what the TV viewership of that game is at this point! That entire group....Shortnorns...Sewerners....Bowlsby....get a middle finger salute goodbye!!! GO POKES!!!

Robert...but absent a buy in/offer from the Pac 12 (or SEC), wouldn't Big 12 expansion be preferable to any other available alternative for the Cowboys? Wouldn't Houston, Cincinnati, USF and perhaps Colorado State or Boise State allow the Big XII to compete at a fairly high level? Do you have to have a couple $200 million athletic budget teams in your conference that the other teams can't fairly compete against (due to competitive resources) to receive a decent TV package?

I think in the short term the Pac 12 waits to add anyone.

I think all this plays out over time. A governing body helps part of this and there are moves made closer to TV deals dates.

Make Texas and OU pay you the money and take your best deal then.

I don't want to join the SEC and go 6-6 the next 30 year

TUSKAPOKE said:

---

Yep....looks like you got it figured out as of today. The PAC-12, maybe soon to be the PAC-16 (PAC-20?), will make a move before the SEC. I agree they want to expand east for TV reasons and that is fine with me as long as the Texas schools come along for recruiting purposes. Bowlsby deserves all the criticism he is getting as he miserably failed the BIG 12, came in as commissioner with his knees already bent to the Shorthorns (and Sewerners somewhat) and did not make a move on the PAC-12 when they showed tremendous weakness. Let's get to where we are going and get there ASAP! Let's not play the Sewerners in anything unless we meet them going for a NC. I do not care what the TV viewership of that game is at this point! That entire group....Shortnorns...Sewerners....Bowlsby....get a middle finger salute goodbye!!! GO POKES!!!

---

I would agree that the PAC 12 looks to be the most logical place to land currently, I think they take four schools in OSU, Texas Tech, TCU and then ???? That would be the biggest question is who the fourth school would be! I don't think they take more than two from Texas and my sincere hope is that they take Kansa State as the fourth school because they have made a commitment to have as strong a football program as possible. Good info Robert, Thanks.

I'm with you, Joe....almost. I think the PAC aversion to religious-based schools is going to leave TCU shut out. I hope that I'm wrong, I'd rather be affiliated with TCU on the go-forward, but I'm not sure the PAC members will get past their secular stance. Maybe they will decide to plow new ground and get past their weird anti-religious preference. If they do...or if they don't....I think Boise State will be courted for an expansion spot.

The Ca schools aversion to religious institutions is only one issue, Ca schools would have a difficult time traveling to Oklahoma given that men can't use women's dressing rooms or toilets. Seriously, that is an actual problem for the pac.

WCOkie said:

---

The Ca schools aversion to religious institutions is only one issue, Ca schools would have a difficult time traveling to Oklahoma given that men can't use women's dressing rooms or toilets. Seriously, that is an actual problem for the pac.

---

In CA, (UCLA, Cal) the aversion to religious institutions mostly referred to BYU in past discussions, which has the non-Sunday issue... but you are exactly correct, it is NO LONGER about religious institutions, it is about LGBTQ-XYZ, and PROHIBITS spending CA State money on travel to certain States listed as anti-(insert letters here) by the State.

PROHIBITION ON STATE-FUNDED AND STATE-SPONSORED TRAVEL TO STATES WITH DISCRIMINATORY LAWS (ASSEMBLY BILL NO. 1887)

... the law prohibits California from approving a request for state-funded or state-sponsored travel to such a state.

The travel prohibition applies to state agencies, departments, boards, authorities, and commissions, including an agency, department, board, authority, or commission of the University of California, the Board of Regents of the University of California (UCLA, UC Berkeley), and the California State University (San Diego State, Fresno State, San Jose State). (Gov. Code, 11139.8, subd. (b).)

https://oag.ca.gov/ab1887

There are some exemptions that can be used, such as for professional training that can only be obtained in such a State, but there is a formal approval process for such exemptions. Sports teams that had contracts for competition in place prior to the law, and for regional or National championship events could also be exemptions.

Exemptions are not issued lightly, because no State agency wants to end up in the news...

If the "Conference" made the change, and the Schools have "contracts, with penalties" to such contracts, the it is possible that would trigger the exemption clause... but you can bet it is part of the discussion that is going on right now.

Personally, I would never ever want anything to do with Oregon or Washington (and I'm in CA, right?)

I knew California was over the top bad. But, I did not know it was bad enough to bar travel to states that did not agree with their extreme over the top views on moral issues. Just crazy.

I personally like the Pac as it allows OSU a fair chance to compete financially against pretty much all but one (or perhaps two) schools. And even those two don't have regular, annual budgets like an OU or UT. It also gives a bunch of great game/travel opportunities for OSU fans.

Ok_state_fan78 said:

---

I knew California was over the top bad. But, I did not know it was bad enough to bar travel to states that did not agree with their extreme over the top views on moral issues. Just crazy.

---

it's not just California...

Since August 2017, five other states including Washington, Minnesota, New York, Vermont, and Connecticut have instituted similar travel restrictions for government employees. All of these, in addition to California, banned travel to the state of North Carolina because of its controversial, anti-transgender "bathroom law," which requires that individuals use only the restroom that corresponds to the biological sex listed on their birth certificate.

In addition, Washington, Minnesota, New York, Vermont, and California all maintain bans against traveling to Mississippi due to the state's law protecting religious organizations from government interference should they choose to deny services to members of the LGBTQ community based on their beliefs.

Wow, I am not sure about the State of California as a whole, they may have statutes against traveling and spending money in certain States but Jesus there are tons of people moving to Texas and Oklahoma from Cali just by the enormous number of California tags that I see in each State. There were large numbers of Cali plates when I was in DFW for the week last Monday through Friday and I have seen a lot of Cali plates in the Oklahoma City area in the past six months and especially this summer.

Dantana said:

---

I think in the short term the Pac 12 waits to add anyone.

I think all this plays out over time. A governing body helps part of this and there are moves made closer to TV deals dates.

Make Texas and OU pay you the money and take your best deal then.

I don't want to join the SEC and go 6-6 the next 30 year

---

That's pretty much the vibe I'm getting from all of this too.... the Pac12 is going to make a statement, but IMHO, it will likely be, we're not going to do anything immediately, but we will continue to look at expansion possibilities, everything else drags out too.

I do not believe that ANYBODY can say what is in our best interest, atm, without us first knowing what the result of the playoff discussion will be.

IMO, if the playoff automatically takes the top 6 conference winners, then it is an absolute no brainer that we maintain the Big12 (preferably with expansion to include the FL recruiting of UCF).... and other "eastern" centered schools (Houston, Memphis, USF, etc...)

Joe Khatib said:

---

Wow, I am not sure about the State of California as a whole, they may have statutes against traveling and spending money in certain States but Jesus there are tons of people moving to Texas and Oklahoma from Cali just by the enormous number of California tags that I see in each State. There were large numbers of Cali plates when I was in DFW for the week last Monday through Friday and I have seen a lot of Cali plates in the Oklahoma City area in the past six months and especially this summer.

---

LOL - yep, that's only one of the reasons that CA had a net decline in population last census for the first time ever.

They're fixing to implement the water restriction law of 50 gal/day per person... it already passed, with delayed implementation. Electricity is outrageous and they keep shutting down Nuke plants and gas powered electric generators.. all the while telling us that we need to turn off our air-conditioned between 2:00 - 8:00 (the hottest part of the day when it's freaking 99 degrees, or higher) and not use your electric appliances either (at the time when you're home most).

all that to say, hopefully you'll see my tags in OK or TX in the next year or so.... I'm trying to not be the last one out.

Just my gut feeling/guess:
If the PAC-12 were to expand (and I'm not so sure they're going to), I think they're only going to take two teams. That way, they get some teams in the Central Time Zone and it would put at 14 just like Big 10 and ACC, which would balance things out in terms of this proposed alliance I'm guessing.
As for who they take, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Oklahoma State and TCU. These two have to best TV viewership numbers of the eight remaining and it would give the PAC a presence in DFW area, which would be a boon for them. As for TCU's "religious affiliation", I think they done enough to distance themselves from that so it probably won't be an issue.
Again, I'm just guessing at this point. I'm just hoping like the rest of us that OSU ends up in a power conference once all the dust settles.

The PAC/B1G/ACC alliance will hold a secret draft to facilitate an orderly termination of the B12, and an orderly expansion/realignment for the alliance.

Why not?

California Cowboy, I'm in Marin are you in NorCal or SoCal

I hope this "central time slot" is a big deal to both the Pac and to Fox. Seems like to me, if I was the Pac12, I'd have a lot of concerns about bringing in any teams UNLESS those teams can be assured to cause our TV contract to be amended to allow their entry at an adjusted total rate that equals or improves current shares to member schools. I don't know OSU or TCU offers that type of added contract dollars.

Norco

Well there would be no problem with the schools traveling here, Athletic funds are not "State" money.

While I would think the PAC would see the need and benefit, I'm not sure they do. They're best move is to take OSU/TT/TCFU and either BU or UH. Really take a big bite of Texas. My fear though is that they'll take a half measure and offer OSU/TT, and we can't afford to pay the $80M to go.

I'm afraid we're going to have to wait for the SEC to take 4, or just stay put.

I'm thinking the Big 8 may simply be going to get support from the alliance to keep us autonomous and guaranteed a shot at the playoffs (or a spot in it with expansion of the playoffs).

NJAggie said:

---

Well there would be no problem with the schools traveling here, Athletic funds are not "State" money.

---

well... maybe. It depends on who's counting, and on organizational structure.

UCLA's budget whammy: The Bruins are bleeding cash and require a bailout from campus

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/01/24/uclas-budget-whammy-the-bruins-are-bleeding-cash-and-require-a-bailout-from-campus/

https://dailybruin.com/2017/02/26/assembly-bill-1887-affects-ucla-travel-to-states-with-discriminatory-laws

Robert, I think you're dreaming. Let's face it. Texas single-handedly destroyed the Big 12 by first running off Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M and Missouri and now taking OU with them to the SEC. There is no one left who can be added and keep the Big 12 at the Power 5 level. None of the other Power 4 conferences feel any urgency to expand, and the remaining Big 12 teams would not add any significant value to them. We are an unfortunate victim of circumstance plus we did not really capitalize on our 2011/2012 success when we had arguably the best team in college football. Unless and until there is some sort of industry-wide realignment structured for the overall benefit of college football, I don't see any option for us that is not a step backward.

Plus, coaching staffs and support personnel are technically paid, government employees, not private sector employees unless we're talking TCU or Baylor.

Orangeheart72 said:

---

Plus, coaching staffs and support personnel are technically paid, government employees, not private sector employees unless we're talking TCU or Baylor.

---

Nope they're paid by the athletic dept out of non-state funds. If they were paid directly by the state they would be making 10% or less of what they make.

WCOkie said:

---

https://dailybruin.com/2017/02/26/assembly-bill-1887-affects-ucla-travel-to-states-with-discriminatory-laws

---

Well it sure didn't stop UCLA's baseball team from travelling to Lubbock to play Tech on June 6 2021.

NJAggie said:

---

WCOkie said:

---

https://dailybruin.com/2017/02/26/assembly-bill-1887-affects-ucla-travel-to-states-with-discriminatory-laws

---

Well it sure didn't stop UCLA's baseball team from travelling to Lubbock to play Tech on June 6 2021.

---

that was a Regional... which was explicitly listed as an exemption. (to not penalize the students for decisions by the conference or the NCAA - such as post season play)

NJAggie said:

---

Orangeheart72 said:

---

Plus, coaching staffs and support personnel are technically paid, government employees, not private sector employees unless we're talking TCU or Baylor.

---

Nope they're paid by the athletic dept out of non-state funds. If they were paid directly by the state they would be making 10% or less of what they make.

---

yes, they are technically paid government employees.... they have to be, or they can't get health benefits and State retirement benefits.

Gundy is paid $500k annually by the University, plus bonuses. The rest is part of a professional services contract.

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/10/2104e8a6-d905-514e-b4a7-e2db7f20011e/5947effdde0a1.pdf.pdf

Article IV - Compensation.

Dan Patrick's sources with a logical conclusion. The Alliance is going to shut down expansion until 2026 with the object being to get the CFB playoff out of ESPN's hands.

The Alliance (#Big10, #ACC, #Pac12) will try to block #CFP expansion until 2026. If they were to expand in 2023 ESPN would own the TV rights to both the #SEC and College Football Playoffs. ESPN having both could create an advantage for SEC schools in CFP selection. pic.twitter.com/DiCmvSTnY7

— Dan Patrick Show (@dpshow) August 23, 2021

See this is what aTm blew. The SEC's plan was to get OU/UT all signed up secretly, then let it all out once they'd gotten the 12 team format and an extension of the playoff for ESPN.

If this is the case our leaders need to start putting together a group of expansion teams for the league that would draw enough eyes to keep us in the $40M range which will be less than the other autonomous conferences.

We've been talking 2 or 4 teams, but maybe the league should shoot big say 8, and take 4 east coast and 4 west coast schools. At least float such an idea, and put pressure on the PAC because their numbers are bad enough if they had any competition in their markets it might hurt them enough to make them think merger. We've been playing poor pitiful me, it may be time to play hard ball.

yep. NJ... that's what I've been talking about all along...

we could do just fine in an expanded Big12, if we got an automatic birth in the 12-team playoff (big if)

NJ, I think you're wrong. There are articles on the fact college coaches and college President's are the highest paid public employees in the majority of states. The funding source is an accounting matter, not determinative of employment status. That's why Gundy's contract is an open record matter. That's why Houston Nutt's university cell phone was subject to open records and helped cause him to lose his job. Gary Patterson's salary or provided cell phone is not. Athletic revenues are still OSU funds when received, as are donations. They are simply earmarked and segregated from the school's general fund by choice. Similar to a City having segregated enterprise funds for water or airports by choice. OSU could buy academic supplies with those Athletic revenues IF they accounted for them as part of General operating fund monies.

no, it's not "just and accounting" issue. Yes, they are State employees, like I pointed out earlier, but with regard to the "monies", while technically all of the money belongs to the University, not all of it was derived from State General Fund Tax monies. It is the distribution of the tax monies that gives the State authority to limit certain activieis.

Wrong my friend. Lots of public funds aren't tax revenues.....utility bill monies, fines, special fees (alarm, insurance designated fee shares, tolls, airport gate fees, etc.). Even received donations become government monies once received if accepted.

I totally agree. Would we make $70M a school? No, but if we could continue at about $40 with escalation we'll be fine. I just hope the schools are seriously planning this way as I really am not sure anyone gets picked up, and at best I agree with Robert 4 is the more likely number.

Being considered a public employee, and being paid with state funds are two very different matters. Gundy may get a small amount as a state employee what ever a full professor makes after 15 years, but the real money is clearly not state money. The state has no ability to pay anyone outside the pay scale for their job title, and there isn't one for coach.

That's why OSU athletics, like all athletics departments at this level, is a separate corporation where the money is all held and used to pay coaches, and operate the sports. They don't act like its separate but it is. That's why all the sports are at OKState.com and not at okstate.edu.