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Oklahoma State Football

Monster Examination of Bedlam Disappointment

November 20, 2022
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STILLWATER – There’s nothing like a Bedlam loss to cause complete soul searching in Oklahoma State players, coaches, and most certainly fans. Yes, sideline reporters too. You wonder if it hurts to stand on those sidelines while the new LED lights in Oklahoma Memorial Stadium flash on and off celebrating each Sooner touchdown in a first quarter 28-0 Boomer build up to the lead. It hurts plenty, just like it hurt watching it wherever you were as a Cowboys fan.

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Monster Examination of Bedlam Disappointment

2,714 Views | 64 Replies | Last: 6 days ago by Roughrider
tulsasig
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Unless and until we dramatically improve our offensive line talent and depth, we will be inadequate on offense. We haven't had real offensive lines since Joe Wickline.
SWCowboyD
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Robert, Offensive line has been a key issue. it looks as though we return almost everyone next season. I have a few questions. Is Birmingham going to be able to play next season? Is Collins completely off the team? Who among the offensive linemen not seeing action this season have a solid chance to contribute next year?
principalg
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Way to try and get a positive spin, Robert. Dunn does not know why the running game did not go. That is his job to know why it did not go.

I will point fingers, and it is not at players. Dunn and Dickey need to be removed from this coaching staff, and Gundy better find some players in the portal that can beef up this offensive line. If this is too much to the point, then ban me from the board.
Last night was pathetic!
PokeRob
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The OL is the problem. The Wilson at center experiment should be over. He whiffed numerous times last night. He was a decent OT last year but he cannot handle the center position. Dickey has had long enough to fix this mess. Gundy said something telling when he said Brooks the transfer was our best lineman. That does not speak well to player development. On defense how could you not be prepared for the wheel route. We should have a guy who's only job is to follow Gray around.
Joe Khatib
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PokeRob said:

The OL is the problem. The Wilson at center experiment should be over. He whiffed numerous times last night. He was a decent OT last year but he cannot handle the center position. Dickey has had long enough to fix this mess. Gundy said something telling when he said Rogers the transfer was out best lineman. That does not speak well to player development. On defense how could you not be prepared for the wheel route. We should have a guy who's only job is to follow Gray around.
Who is Rogers?
principalg
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He meant Brooks.
PokeRob
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Sorry you are right Brooks.
Crazed_Stallion
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Robert,

The spin here is amazing, bravo to you. The Oline and Dickey are the spoon that stirs the drink. That spoon is broken. The Dickey experiment is over. Get the old man gone and bring in anyone that can recruit and coach lineman. Dickeys time has come and gone, the game has passed him by.

Also, if Oklahoma State doesn't wanna compete in NIL then they will die out like the rest of the programs. Nothing is going to change for the next 5-8years.
Orangeheart72
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Seems to me the long term affect of NIL is dangerous to OSU not only because we lack comparative numbers of corporate supporters in this state to some other schools (especially considering the OU drain) but also the likelihood that our Big XII private schools can easily hide so many records involving possible NIL rule breaking IF NIL rules ever get officially set, clarified and hopefully enforced. No "open records" requirements for TCU, Baylor and at least some of the new folks.
And I'm not qualified to be a judge of coaches, but for those after Dickey, has his impact been less impressive than Mason's impact? Appears to me Gundy may have a mess on his hands.
Mtsmith6
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Let's not complain about a problem without presenting a solution… We know the O-Line has been an issue for years. Dickey has to go, but let's find someone to replace him.

North Texas O-Line Coach: Randy Clements, 18th in Avg Yards/Att

UAB O-Line Coach: Richard Owens, 6th in Avg Yards/Att

Auburn O-Line Coach: Will Friend (Probably leaving when new HC comes in)

Ok-State Cowboy Backs Coach: Jason McEndoo (O-Line Coach for Montana St 11 years and played O-Line for Wash St)

FCS coaches??

… let's get a list of candidates

eecowboy
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RA, thank you for your article.

You have your restraints and constraints, being in the position you are in - both professionally and personally - to the program. But, also your personal and professional relationship for 40+ yrs covering HCMG. So thank you for the insight you CAN provide. I mean that. You bleed orange, and I love it! Seriously.

So, here are a couple of thoughts on my 40 + years watching the Cowboys from the stands as a teenager, and choosing to attend the University over the goons down south; then watching as an alum when I came home from overseas, and now, with my son who's an OSU jr., and all his crazy-ass fraternity brothers, who live and breathe the Cowboys as we ALL have done over the years, and all will continue to do until we're gone.

(Total Sidebar here - my son and a vast majority of his pledge class went to Norman and tailgated with sister/brother fraternities and sororities prior to the game. Surprisingly to me, they had a ball!! However, in the stands, as it went from 14 to 21 to 28 - 0, it became so obnoxious and unbearable, from the vitriol and the spit, beer and insults poured on them, he texted "thanks for the tix dad, but gotta roll or it will be a brawl w grown men in here." I guess those flashing sec lights on every score did a number, huh?

Funny, they claim we aren't their rival, yet they play us like losing is simply not an option. They certainly are coached like we're their rival on the field - they play to win and not to lose ((wish we had that mentality certain years)). In 2012, it literally took me and my group 15 minutes or so to get out of the stadium after enduring their "non-rivalry-Super Bowl-celebration" and nonsense that ensued after that debacle. I haven't been back since, and I certainly understand what the boys endured last night in a "no big deal you're not our rival game" as it got out of hand in the first!)

I say all that, because Bedlam brings out the "care." It brings out the "want," the "desire" to just win one god-doggone game.

Just one.

I know, I know, I know "old school mentality" yes. So what! I want to beat them in every damn sport every &|#} time.

I imagine everyone on this board (especially the subscribers) have an invested interest in the program with our time, our money, and our dreams. Besides a Big XII championship, Bedlam is the one we all want won.

That being said, the boys ^ are right this O line fiasco, for the last 3 years now, lands at the feet of Dickey and HCMG. Last night was an indictment on our depth, or lack-there-of (not enough effective recruiting), and his coaching. Woof.

It is time for Charlie Johnson to be hired and rejuvenate this situation. Put Dickey as a SR. advisor, but hire Charlie ASAP. He's young, he's bright, he's a self-made, decade-long NFL talent that can flat out coach. And, he's tough as nails. He's not nice, trust me on that. He's what we need. Immediately. Upshot, he already lives here and knows the ins-and-outs of the program. I would wager that recruiting would see an uptick w Charlie on the road versus Dickey.

Couple of other thoughts that come to mind from the game, the current landscape, and your article:

NIL - boys are right again ^, we can't be this "blue blood national brand" (as proclaimed from HCMG on the dais at Fiesta Bowl trophy ceremony) if you don't want to keep up with, or even attempt to stay up with, the NIL situation.

NIL is what it is until the guard rails are in place. As of now (this recruiting cycle), the guard rails are not in place, so we better keep up with NIL' ing, (OLinemen please), or we can put our head in the sand and not have a chance with certain recruits. Certainly not keeping this notion of being a "national brand" if we don't! Our current position of "not participating in NIL in the non-Cowboy-way " will not be good enough for football recruiting, if the NIL requirements and financial number's on OSU Olympic sports, are any barometer!

Culture. I Love hearing about culture. Being a former U.S. Marine, I can relate. Culture is discipline and toughness. Culture is taught. Culture is trained relentlessly over and over and over again. Culture is demanded. Culture is ALSO ROUTINE. In comparison to past years on a Friday night at the team hotel (especially road games), I'd say many a Friday night this season have not been routine, right? Unless the Pioneers were playing a Thursday night game I suppose?

I don't know … but you brought up the notion of "big picture" "small picture" ideas of identifying problems from not only last night, but basically this season and beyond, right? It's a legitimate question based on the past and what's been happening currently now for a bit.

Bottom line - Lack of recruiting quality depth at O line for years; coupled with letting several O linemen leave via the portal that would've been on the 2 deep was/is a monumental issue that is evident now. Especially last night when we ALL watched live on our HD TV's the debacle of 6 sacks and a dozen or more qb pressures etc with only a 3 man front!

And HCMG's own self-proclamation on his hesitancy of the portal, combined with conservative NIL plans, plus an old O line Coach … this downward trend has been on display for years, and was no more evident than last night.

Gotta adapt now, or we will continue to repeat the same old lessons of history for seasons to come - kind of like the past several year's unfortunately.

Sadly, Haven't even talked about play calling, or schemes, or 4th down punts near the middle of the field because all of the "X's and O's" are non relevant if you don't have the "Jimmy and the Joe's."

Up front, we simply don't.

Let's beat West Virginia!!!

Go Cowboys!!!
Pokes4158
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I wish cali were here to see all these people talking about the line he defended forever. Always said I was wrong. So many people notice how bad it really is and has been. It took a final straw of bedlam for people to speak uo but you know something is truly bad when people come from the woodworks to voice their opinions on the matter.
AustinCowboy88
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3 wins and 15 losses in 18 years as HC.

OU has been the dominate team that majority of those years. They were very beatable this year.

Our coaches and the players they recruited seem to have a very rough first quarter, wonder why that is?
Crazed_Stallion
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I propose to you that TT beats them. now that would look really bad on Gundy.
Eclectic
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I mostly agree. I stated a couple months ago that I wasn't on the "fire dickey" bandwagon, but now I am. Kasey Dunn needs to be a receivers coach. He's an excellent judge of talent and a great recruiter, but not an OC. Pay him the same amount for all i care. Gundy stated earlier this year that he thot Dunn should be at the top of the list for HC positions, but over the past 15 years, Gundy has criticized his OC for leaving for HC jobs. I think this is Gundy's way of trying to force him out with a positive benefit.
I hope Mason accepted an HC job a month ago and just hasn't announced. This D is terrible!. We had 3 good quarters against a terrible OU team. We had 8 terrible quarters against KSU and KU. Statistically, near the bottom of the rung for all of D1 other than 3rd downs.
Eclectic
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Zach Crabtree - Baylor - GA OL. OSU - GA OL. USC - GA OL
pokeacola
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D O M I N A N T , not dominate. Dominate is a verb. Dominant is an adjective. I know, no one likes the grammar police.

We NEED an OSU worthy running back. We do not have one. It isn't Ollie, it isn't Dom, and it probably is not Nixon, however, he seems to be the closest thing. Maybe it is the rarely used Jackson. Perhaps the answer is
C. J. Brown? Maybe our guy is in the portal. I know the O line is lacking but a high functioning RB can often make something out of nothing. Nearly Every team we have played has had better RB talent us. this must change.
Crazed_Stallion
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It's really hard to do anything when the Oline is just absolutely pour. I think Nixon and Ollie are good. They just don't have a soul to block for them.
gary121853
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RA,
regardless of any professional/personal constraints in you have in place with regard to the OSU FB program, I dont see how any professional journalist can write a 'Monstrous Examination' of that debacle and not even mention the 'Coaching' topic ... either at the pre-game, in-game or post-game level(s).... seriously?
OSUgary
gary121853
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Many times Gundy has made reference to his admiration of Bill Snyder (KSU). Overtime Snyder wore out his welcome at KSU resulting in a 'very' divided Fan base. Primarily, due to over-leveraging his position/influence etc
Im sure Weiberg is fully cognizant of how that scenario unfolded overtime and the effect on capital donations etc .... surely, that situation will not be lost on Weiberg. Is Gundy approaching that situation? IMO .... NO!

But, I cannot imagine any scenario where any BOT member can be happy with how completely unprepare the Team and Coaches were and the in-game Coaching decisions made. Completely gutless performance put on national display Saturday.
OSUgary
OSU1414
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What happened here? Hurt, or couldn't beat out the 3-stars?


An early enrollee who was the nation's top junior college offensive lineman and No. 2 overall junior college prospect, regardless of position, according to 247Sports … A four-star prospect according to both Rivals and 247Sports.

Prior to OSU: Selected as the conference most valuable player and was a first-team all-conference honoree … ... Chose Oklahoma State over reported offers from Texas A&M, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, TCU, Missouri, West Virginia, Texas Tech and others.


Pokes4158
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Told what we wanted to hear
OSU1414
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CowboyRed said:

Told what we wanted to hear
Not sure that I understand. He was 4-star by major recruiting sites. #2 overall Juco pick. Surely he was injured. How could not start otherwise?
Pokes4158
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He had those rankings yes. But we were told he was 300 plus pounds and was enrolling early and would be a candidate to start this year. He was majorly hyped by pokes report for sure. Somehow someway everyone included in his evaluation missed that fact that he was actually like 290 with a wet shirt on. So I personally think they knew he wasn't ready and maybe would need a year like ettiene before him but they didn't want to tell us that because we didn't want to hear that. We all needed and wanted comfort knowing our o line would be better for this season because it struggled so much last year. We they made us feel pretty good but behind the scenes nothing was fixed.
Joe Khatib
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You are Nucking Futs, he is the recruiting analyst the last three years that has us in this DAMN MESS!!! Zach Allen is trying to fix his mess in one years time!!!
Joe Khatib
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Joe Khatib said:

You are nuckig Futs, he is the recruiting analyst the last three years that has us in this DAMN MESS!!! Zach Alle, current OL anslyst, is trying to fix his mess in one years time!!!
PistolD
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We lack O-linemen talented enough to win the league, no difference makers at wideout and running back. With Sanders' departure, we don't have a quarterback good enough either.

We've averaged 12.5 points offensively in our last four conference games. We aren't beating ANYBODY with that degree of futility.

So record injuries and lack of improvement across the team doesn't bode well for the future. It's almost a lost season for development. Add teams transforming themselves in one offseason to play for the title in TCU and KSU and we'll need an infusion of portal talent just to have a chance moving forward. Challenges abound for Cowboy Football!
CaliforniaCowboy
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CowboyRed said:

I wish cali were here to see all these people talking about the line he defended forever. Always said I was wrong. So many people notice how bad it really is and has been. It took a final straw of bedlam for people to speak uo but you know something is truly bad when people come from the woodworks to voice their opinions on the matter.
sorry pal, I was out Monday dealing with a family member in the hospital.

Just because a lot of people get it wrong, does not automatically make it right. Think about that.

I said this line is makeshift, and we have the pieces to be a good line when they are healthy, and/or get experience.

I said the situation is not good, you said the coach is not good.... very, very, very different things.

I do not get impressed when a bunch of boo-birds start dog piling..... it's childish, IMO.

now leave me alone. Your chest thumping does not make you correct, it makes you look like an ape.
Pokes4158
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Can't be fat stupid drunk and wrong forever cali. Good luck with that
Robert Allen
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Staff
Read all the comments. Some had plenty of validity and some are the typical lack of knowledge comments. As far as coaches, they factor into all of it from a recruiting, scheme, and teaching standpoint. Just because I don't cite the coach first, coaches are always involved in the issues and the answers.

Bottom line this program is still better than it has ever been. It has some issues that need to be addressed, but Gundy and the staff will do that. I've been asked if the staff will change any. I don't know, but I believe Gundy will do what he feels necessary to move the program forward and address the issues that have develeoped.
Crazed_Stallion
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If he doesn't change the staff up it's coaching malpractice. Dickey HAS to go along with that "coach" we call a cowboy back position Mcandoo, dude can't do anything with his recruits and has to take WR to make any kind of success. It's disgusting that Gundy thinks he is so comfortable that he is fine with 7 win seasons. All that crap about we got a logo doesn't mean jack when you roll out a 7 win season and basically the worst recruiting class in 18 years. Weiberg. Enter not roll his contract over. Send a message that Oklahoma State wont stand for subpar performances and lack of caring about recruiting.
Joe Khatib
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Thanks Robert, it's too bad you have to deal with idiot mental cases like Mr. Ed who needs Wilbur to clean out his stall! He is Nucking Futs!!!
Crazed_Stallion
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I'm not the only one looking through orange glasses Joe. You can be critical of this staff for what has been a horrible season.
Pokes4158
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I prepared to see how far Gundy will go to fix the weaknesses we have. Or how little he will do. I am genuinely curious. It's out in the open now fans are clearly fed up and the excuses are worn thin so let's see what happens.
Pokes4158
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Glad to see Robert speak in the forum tho it happens so rarely maybe we need more pandemonium so people will get what they pay for.
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