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Oklahoma State Football

Compromised? Yes. Have I Lost My Mind? No.

January 1, 2023
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STILLWATER – Bill Haisten of The Tulsa World is a friend of mine. I enjoy reading Haisten’s columns and while he does a tremendous job of diving into the prep beat, an area where like many of us he honed his talents, I am excited to see he is back on the everyday top column role in the World. I thought his column on Sunday for the New Year’s Day issue was very sensible. Haisten wrote on how he expects January will be an eventful month for Oklahoma State football and Mike Gundy.

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Compromised? Yes. Have I Lost My Mind? No.

8,261 Views | 25 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by gary121853
Joe Khatib
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One thing I didn't realize was how much wecwould miss Sills, Godlevske and Birmingham from our interior offensive line! Outside of Hunter Anthony who was hurt the second half of the season and Jason Brooks we didn't get what was needed!!! Also need the portal transfer from Michgan and Ollie Gordon to produce a one two punch at running back. Also, curious to see if Armstrog come in as a QB, hope we hear something in the next week.
Csquaredosu66
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Great article RA. I was coached by Gundy and I have to say, I call it like I see it. Gundy is the best thing for OSU right now, but I feel he needs to adapt better and faster.

I feel he needs to have a more Personal connection with his team. He needs to adapt his coaching and philosophies. He is too passive and not aggressive enough.

I do think it's time we find that "coach in waiting." Get him on staff and we need to piney up $ to be that school again that people talk about with too paid assistants.

Like I said, Gundy is Gundy, and right now he is the dude. No one is perfect. Just look how other coaches around the country are reacting to "Stupid Questions" or "poorly timed questions." It's not just Gundy. There is a wealth of the spot light issues going around.
Orangeheart72
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You're still the favorite OSU writer for some folks RA, I assure you. And if your opinions are affected by OSU or Gundy appreciation and loyalty.....so be it. Some of our experiences and opinions are as well. Heck, I've had about 60 years of watching OSU now, so while I understand some get frustrated we almost never grab the ring......times have been great the last 15 years as compared to the previous 45! Again, appreciate you Robert.
eddy.mcdaniels
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I don't think we should have a change at HC.

I do think Shrum and Weiberg need to have a meeting with HCMG and ask him,

Are you still up to this? This is 2022, and it is chaos with NIL and transfer portal. You're an old ball coach and if you're stuck in your ways that's fine, but you're going to have embrace the new reality fully.

I hope Gundy is up for it, but if he isn't 100% in he should do the right thing and resign.
Joe Khatib
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eddy.mcdaniels said:

I don't think we should have a change at HC.

I do think Shrum and Weiberg need to have a meeting with HCMG and ask him,

Are you still up to this? This is 2022, and it is chaos with NIL and transfer portal. You're an old ball coach and if you're stuck in your ways that's fine, but you're going to have embrace the new reality fully.

I hope Gundy is up for it, but if he isn't 100% in he should do the right thing and resign.
Be DAMN CAREFUL what you ask for!!! Nebraska = Exhibit number 1, they fired a Coach with a 68% winning percentage and never came back or were close to winning even a conference championship!!!
Joe Khatib
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Csquaredosu66 said:

Great article RA. I was coached by Gundy and I have to say, I call it like I see it. Gundy is the best thing for OSU right now, but I feel he needs to adapt better and faster.

I feel he needs to have a more Personal connection with his team. He needs to adapt his coaching and philosophies. He is too passive and not aggressive enough.

I do think it's time we find that "coach in waiting." Get him on staff and we need to piney up $ to be that school again that people talk about with too paid assistants.

Like I said, Gundy is Gundy, and right now he is the dude. No one is perfect. Just look how other coaches around the country are reacting to "Stupid Questions" or "poorly timed questions." It's not just Gundy. There is a wealth of the spot light issues going around.
Did you play with Zach or were you before or after his time at OSU (2005 - 2008)?
Csquaredosu66
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Csquaredosu66 said:

Great article RA. I was coached by Gundy and I have to say, I call it like I see it. Gundy is the best thing for OSU right now, but I feel he needs to adapt better and faster.

I feel he needs to have a more Personal connection with his team. He needs to adapt his coaching and philosophies. He is too passive and not aggressive enough.

I do think it's time we find that "coach in waiting." Get him on staff and we need to piney up $ to be that school again that people talk about with too paid assistants.

Like I said, Gundy is Gundy, and right now he is the dude. No one is perfect. Just look how other coaches around the country are reacting to "Stupid Questions" or "poorly timed questions." It's not just Gundy. There is a wealth of the spot light issues going around.
Joe Khatib said:
Did you play with Zach or were you before or after his time at OSU (2005 - 2008)?


2001-2004
PistolD
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It's easy to appreciate what Mike has done for OSU Football. Before him, our lack of quality was maddening and there was far more failure than any success. His tenure has been very successful and naturally he has created expectations for more!

OSU has always been a place that wrestles with their definition of success. They accept far less than the general definition which involves success versus your instate rival and championships. That creates a divide within the fanbase as to what constitutes excellence and what is accepting of something less.That debate will rage on until by some stroke of magic they actually align with more wins in rivalry games and more titles achieved. Until then, the general definition is embraced by the general public and national media when judging Mike Gundy and Oklahoma State Football. It is decidedly good but not great. That implies we have much more to do to reach greater universal success. But many aren't sure if Mike has the energy and plan to reach greater heights as a program? We seem complacent, staid, and comfortable with bowl eligibility and trying to win more than we lose.

The question is how does that impact our ability to recruit because it sure seems that has been felt in our inability to close on consensus recruits and win head to head with other successful programs?
We sure get uneasy as a fanbase when we offer players with no other Power Five offers. It seems desperate, lazy, and doesn't inspire confidence our program is actually competing for titles or simply filling a roster and hoping to catch lightening in a bottle.

These are the reasons the fans get concerned when things fall off a cliff like the 2022 season. How does that happen if you recruit better depth that can play?

I hope Mike can fix our weaknesses and can insist his staff recruit better so we don't find ourselves unable to field competitive players even if we are hit with injuries like we were this year.

One thing is certain, we aren't the only program with stated goals of dominating the new Big Twelve and TCU and KSU seem ahead in that regard with Tech setting up a fully funded effort with new enthusiasm to do the same. We have to have a plan and match the energy those programs are bringing to that effort. We just hope we recognize it and are doing something to get in the fray!
Joe Khatib
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You do realize this program is one year removed from a Big XII title appearance, Fiesta Bowl championship and top 10 finish!
PaloDuroPoke
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We are on our way back with a few tweaks here and there. Young talent everywhere. It sounds like tweets are in motion with o-line and running game. Lots of depth coming to defense. If we can find a QB for next year and some depth on the d-line, we will challenge in 2023. This conference will be tough from top to bottom and depth will once again be key. It's not by coincidence that experience and depth has been represented in the last two Big 12 championship games. Baylor and us last year and TCU and Kstate this year. Older experienced players with limited injuries. If Sanders were coming back we could be fighting for this again. Need a QB. There is a lot to be positive about with this team. Get 'r Done coach.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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PistolD said:

It's easy to appreciate what Mike has done for OSU Football. Before him, our lack of quality was maddening and there was far more failure than any success. His tenure has been very successful and naturally he has created expectations for more!

OSU has always been a place that wrestles with their definition of success. They accept far less than the general definition which involves success versus your instate rival and championships. That creates a divide within the fanbase as to what constitutes excellence and what is accepting of something less.That debate will rage on until by some stroke of magic they actually align with more wins in rivalry games and more titles achieved. Until then, the general definition is embraced by the general public and national media when judging Mike Gundy and Oklahoma State Football. It is decidedly good but not great. That implies we have much more to do to reach greater universal success. But many aren't sure if Mike has the energy and plan to reach greater heights as a program? We seem complacent, staid, and comfortable with bowl eligibility and trying to win more than we lose.

The question is how does that impact our ability to recruit because it sure seems that has been felt in our inability to close on consensus recruits and win head to head with other successful programs?
We sure get uneasy as a fanbase when we offer players with no other Power Five offers. It seems desperate, lazy, and doesn't inspire confidence our program is actually competing for titles or simply filling a roster and hoping to catch lightening in a bottle.

These are the reasons the fans get concerned when things fall off a cliff like the 2022 season. How does that happen if you recruit better depth that can play?

I hope Mike can fix our weaknesses and can insist his staff recruit better so we don't find ourselves unable to field competitive players even if we are hit with injuries like we were this year.

One thing is certain, we aren't the only program with stated goals of dominating the new Big Twelve and TCU and KSU seem ahead in that regard with Tech setting up a fully funded effort with new enthusiasm to do the same. We have to have a plan and match the energy those programs are bringing to that effort. We just hope we recognize it and are doing something to get in the fray!



In summary, you think the answer is - quit being lazy or complacent and just recruit better. Correct?

What if I told you landing 4 & 5 star recruits, and some higher rated 3 star recruits is now almost completely out of the control of the coaching staffs and now rests with the booster organizations or individuals that control NIL $$$? Are fans going to celebrate recruiting successes (as measured by stars) as the work of the HC or of the NIL folks? Are fans going to criticize the HC for uncompetitive recruiting classes or blame the lack of NIL$$$?

How can a HC play strictly by the rules (not use the promise of NIL$$$ as a recruiting inducement) and ever get a firm handle on who he can realistically sign and therefore who he and his staff spend time and money recruiting?

Will evaluating and identifying player "potential" out of a much larger pool of 2 & 3 stars become more and more critical for schools that lack substantial NIL$$$? And when a HC turns a 2 star recruit into a 4 or 5 star player, how does he keep that player without substantial NIL$$$ which he has no legal control?

Do facilities, stadiums, training tables, academic services, coaching staffs, culture and program quality become afterthoughts by recruits that focus solely on NIL$$$? If so, as a donor, why would I donate for top-notch facilities and player amenities when recruits only care about NIL$$$?

Bottom line, can a HC be held solely responsible and accountable for talent acquisition and retention when he can't legally be involved in the single biggest factor (NIL$$$) affecting an athletes decision to sign with or stay at a university?

I'm losing interest, rather quickly.

CaliforniaCowboy
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eddy.mcdaniels said:

I don't think we should have a change at HC.

I do think Shrum and Weiberg need to have a meeting with HCMG and ask him,

Are you still up to this? This is 2022, and it is chaos with NIL and transfer portal. You're an old ball coach and if you're stuck in your ways that's fine, but you're going to have embrace the new reality fully.

I hope Gundy is up for it, but if he isn't 100% in he should do the right thing and resign.
Joe Khatib said:
Be DAMN CAREFUL what you ask for!!! Nebraska = Exhibit number 1, they fired a Coach with a 68% winning percentage and never came back or were close to winning even a conference championship!!!
Texas is still wishing they hadn't fired Mac Brown back too.... that story has been written a thousand times, where fans demand change and don't have a freaking clue what they are talking about
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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Orangeheart72 said:

You're still the favorite OSU writer for some folks RA, I assure you. And if your opinions are affected by OSU or Gundy appreciation and loyalty.....so be it. Some of our experiences and opinions are as well. Heck, I've had about 60 years of watching OSU now, so while I understand some get frustrated we almost never grab the ring......times have been great the last 15 years as compared to the previous 45! Again, appreciate you Robert.


Agree.

Further, some of us understand access to the HC, assistant coaches, players, practice and facilities come at a (reasonable) price - not disclosing confidential info, (some) damaging info, less than strategically placed critiques.

On the other hand, RAs detractors fail to realize or even understand that concept.
CaliforniaCowboy
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I like having a homer....

I much prefer having someone that cares about our future and our success, than one that is solely focused on their own success at any price.

Yea Robert. Boo detractors.

tulsasig
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Relax, Robert. This is the only OSU or college football website that I actually write a check for each year. That's because I know you have the latest news about Cowboy football and an informed point of view about program developments. Here's the bottom line for me: Mike Gundy's record speaks for itself. He is one of the winningest coaches in college football over the last 10-12 years. He deserves our thanks and support, and I believe he gets it from fans at large and OSU leadership. That's as it should be. It doesn't mean, though, that we have abandoned our ambition to be even better as a program and compete for conference and national honors even more frequently. It also doesn't mean we're going to stop being very disappointed when we under-perform, and we seek action and accountability for getting better. Mike Gundy has earned the right to take action on his own timetable, so to me the idea of firing him is idiotic. My vision for the next 5-10 years of Cowboy football is to continue to do everything we can to raise the bar and get to the next level (TCU just showed us it's possible), bring in at least a couple of assistant coaches who have head coaching ability, let them be groomed by Coach Gundy and when Mike is ready to retire, we will have one or more viable internal head coaching candidates.

So, Robert, my advice would be to keep doing what you're doing (we appreciate it) and use your platform and voice to encourage the program to strive to become a national leader. We're not that far away.
Cdub234
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People don't care. They're quick to give credit to anyone else for a 12 win season and quick to blame a 7 win one on HCMG and openly express their concerns, YET AGAIN, that he's lost the fire, desire or team itself.

We were top 10 in wins over the last decade entering '22 yet people still complain yearly about recruiting. Either the rankings are sketchy at best or we have a great coaching staff in place to pull off that many wons over than long of a tile period. Which is it?

If we don't beat 0u or win a Big 12 title then we aren't a "success" to them and those of us are who consider a 12 win one last year are accepting "mediocrity". These are the same people saying he's too old school and can't navigate the portal when we've had so many difference making ones come in over the last few seasons. You just can't win with these types.
eddy.mcdaniels
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eddy.mcdaniels said:

I don't think we should have a change at HC.

I do think Shrum and Weiberg need to have a meeting with HCMG and ask him,

Are you still up to this? This is 2022, and it is chaos with NIL and transfer portal. You're an old ball coach and if you're stuck in your ways that's fine, but you're going to have embrace the new reality fully.

I hope Gundy is up for it, but if he isn't 100% in he should do the right thing and resign.
Joe Khatib said:
Be DAMN CAREFUL what you ask for!!! Nebraska = Exhibit number 1, they fired a Coach with a 68% winning percentage and never came back or were close to winning even a conference championship!!!


And so did tcu. And you clearly didn't read the first sentence.

No one is above evaluation. And no one is above being asked if they're fully bought in and committed.

The program is stale. And if Gundy isn't the guy to revive it, changes should be considered.

-Our offense is the worst in the P5 unless there's an nfl qb under center. '14, '19, '22
-we haven't had an elite oline in a decade. Why can't a coach that loves running the ball, build a good oline?
-our recruiting sucks. We get injured and the lack of depth becomes apparent quickly.


There's dozens of other issues. Those are the three most pressing.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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+ 1 more quotes (click to expand)
Joe Khatib said:
Be DAMN CAREFUL what you ask for!!! Nebraska = Exhibit number 1, they fired a Coach with a 68% winning percentage and never came back or were close to winning even a conference championship!!!
eddy.mcdaniels said:


And so did tcu. And you clearly didn't read the first sentence.

No one is above evaluation. And no one is above being asked if they're fully bought in and committed.

The program is stale. And if Gundy isn't the guy to revive it, changes should be considered.

-Our offense is the worst in the P5 unless there's an nfl qb under center. '14, '19, '22
-we haven't had an elite oline in a decade. Why can't a coach that loves running the ball, build a good oline?
-our recruiting sucks. We get injured and the lack of depth becomes apparent quickly.


There's dozens of other issues. Those are the three most pressing.


So, stale is what you call a program that won 12 games last year?

So, an offense that is the worst in the P5 unless there's an nfl qb under center ranks as follow amongst P5 teams:
2022 - 31 (#3 in scoring after 7 games)
2021 - 32
2020 - 21
2019 - 12
2018 - 7
2017 - 2
2016 - 8
2015 - 12
2014 - 46
2013 - 23
2012 - 3
2011 - 2

Me thinks you have perception issues.
PistolD
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No, I'm concerned with the quality of recruiting overall which we saw made us non competitive within the league. We fell off a cliff due to injuries and a lack of quality in our backups. Too many pups as backups means attrition was substantial and is another concern you have to try to mitigate. Add an O-line problem going on almost a decade of poor recruiting and development with starters AND backups and success isn't sustainable.

I understand the challenges and don't envy Mike in navigating them. That doesn't change the job to do what is needed if possible to be more successful adding better quality there because if we can't our competitiveness will decline.

If that means he needs more NIL money he has to try to raise it. if we find a difference maker we have to be as competitive as possible to try and get that guy. In short, though institutionally and within our coaching staff we may not like this new reality but we better find a way to play the game forced on us or get left behind.

Our fans like all fan bases will get the chance to put their money where their mouths are.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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PistolD said:

No, I'm concerned with the quality of recruiting overall which we saw made us non competitive within the league. We fell off a cliff due to injuries and a lack of quality in our backups. Too many pups as backups means attrition was substantial and is another concern you have to try to mitigate. Add an O-line problem going on almost a decade of poor recruiting and development with starters AND backups and success isn't sustainable.

I understand the challenges and don't envy Mike in navigating them. That doesn't change the job to do what is needed if possible to be more successful adding better quality there because if we can't our competitiveness will decline.

If that means he needs more NIL money he has to try to raise it. if we find a difference maker we have to be as competitive as possible to try and get that guy. In short, though institutionally and within our coaching staff we may not like this new reality but we better find a way to play the game forced on us or get left behind.

Our fans like all fan bases will get the chance to put their money where their mouths are.


So the answer to my question ("In summary, you think the answer is - quit being lazy or complacent and just recruit better. Correct?") - is "no" but your complaints are we need to recruit better. Really odd.

And one of your fixes is to break NCAA rules and have Gundy raise and administer more NIL funds so we stay competitive?

Clearly we live on different planets.
Joe Khatib
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Millennials, I have seen some of these folks on Twitter and other social media! I told several after the West Virginia game while were drying off in Hideaway that it takes more than just complaining about things! All those who buy season tickets and support through the possee are the back bone but now you have things like NIL and it will require probably more of a financial commitment to help keep the talent base stocked! I know that many loathed the NIL business and have said they are done or close to being done with college athletics but until they get a handle and some sanity in this process, you have to try to keep up with Joneses! I am fortunate to have extra funds to put forward into NIL Collective's and many these days don't because of the state of our economy ! We are fortunate in that we can still bring in good players and keep our head above water but how much longer that lasts is ????????????????? Sorry to sound like a downer but someone or some entity HAS TO GET CONTROL OF NIL!!!
Joe Khatib
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Cdub234 said:

People don't care. They're quick to give credit to anyone else for a 12 win season and quick to blame a 7 win one on HCMG and openly express their concerns, YET AGAIN, that he's lost the fire, desire or team itself.

We were top 10 in wins over the last decade entering '22 yet people still complain yearly about recruiting. Either the rankings are sketchy at best or we have a great coaching staff in place to pull off that many wons over than long of a tile period. Which is it?

If we don't beat 0u or win a Big 12 title then we aren't a "success" to them and those of us are who consider a 12 win one last year are accepting "mediocrity". These are the same people saying he's too old school and can't navigate the portal when we've had so many difference making ones come in over the last few seasons. You just can't win with these types.
TCU and Kansas State were SENIOR laden teams who were fortunate to not suffer serious portal losses from last year and in fact were enhanced by portal pickups! If you don't believe me, go look at their starting lineups and rosters! Both teams were much like ours last year, a bunch of three star talent that was developed over three or four years and again stayed intact and didn't bolt via the portal. We lost Rodriguez, Harper, Antwine, Holmes, Harrell-Peel and Sterling via graduation or used up eligibility. You compound that by the unexpected departures of Bernard-Converse, McAlister and Jernigan via the portal you lost nine players on defense who made up the backbone of that unit, many being multi year starters! The losses on offense were Jaylon Warren, Tay Martin, Josh Sills, Danny Godlevske,, Dezmon Jackson, LD Brown and I am going g to include Cole Birmingham because he was out injured the whole 2022 season! Plus your experienced backup QB left via the portal to Univ of Nevada! It will be interesting to see how TCU fares without Dugan, Miller or Johnston who could all go pro or KState without Duece Vaughn, Malik Knowles and Phillip Brooks who also could all go pro as well!
AustinCowboy88
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One has to wonder if this shift in where the money flows will have long term economic viability. Evidence suggest there is a new center of gravity.

Up until recently the major source of giving was directly to the University Athletic Dept and their established ventures whereby the money provided assistance for a wide facility of both male and female athletes under a single University brand.

There is only so much money, even for a University like UT here in Austin where I live. As more and more of those funds get rerouted directly to NIL programs it would appear some of the downstream programs and athletes will suffer.

How long will it take for lawmakers and governing bodies to step in to harness the NIL?

What kinds of innovated things (beyond giving to our own Pokes with a Purpose) can OSU do to develop and retain talent?

One last note, I don't much blame the players. If you come from humble means, 100K-200K, can seem life altering at 20 years old.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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AustinCowboy88 said:

One has to wonder if this shift in where the money flows will have long term economic viability. Evidence suggest there is a new center of gravity.

Up until recently the major source of giving was directly to the University Athletic Dept and their established ventures whereby the money provided assistance for a wide facility of both male and female athletes under a single University brand.

There is only so much money, even for a University like UT here in Austin where I live. As more and more of those funds get rerouted directly to NIL programs it would appear some of the downstream programs and athletes will suffer.

How long will it take for lawmakers and governing bodies to step in to harness the NIL?

What kinds of innovated things (beyond giving to our own Pokes with a Purpose) can OSU do to develop and retain talent?

One last note, I don't much blame the players. If you come from humble means, 100K-200K, can seem life altering at 20 years old.


To add to the problem, unless you contribute to a non-profit NIL venture or own a business that you can use NIL expenditures as advertising expense, unlike donations to an athletic dept, your NIL contributions are not tax deductible.

Doesn't matter in my case because I refuse to contribute to a model (NIL) I do not believe in.
gary121853
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PistolD said:

It's easy to appreciate what Mike has done for OSU Football. Before him, our lack of quality was maddening and there was far more failure than any success. His tenure has been very successful and naturally he has created expectations for more!

OSU has always been a place that wrestles with their definition of success. They accept far less than the general definition which involves success versus your instate rival and championships. That creates a divide within the fanbase as to what constitutes excellence and what is accepting of something less.That debate will rage on until by some stroke of magic they actually align with more wins in rivalry games and more titles achieved. Until then, the general definition is embraced by the general public and national media when judging Mike Gundy and Oklahoma State Football. It is decidedly good but not great. That implies we have much more to do to reach greater universal success. But many aren't sure if Mike has the energy and plan to reach greater heights as a program? We seem complacent, staid, and comfortable with bowl eligibility and trying to win more than we lose.

The question is how does that impact our ability to recruit because it sure seems that has been felt in our inability to close on consensus recruits and win head to head with other successful programs?
We sure get uneasy as a fanbase when we offer players with no other Power Five offers. It seems desperate, lazy, and doesn't inspire confidence our program is actually competing for titles or simply filling a roster and hoping to catch lightening in a bottle.

These are the reasons the fans get concerned when things fall off a cliff like the 2022 season. How does that happen if you recruit better depth that can play?

I hope Mike can fix our weaknesses and can insist his staff recruit better so we don't find ourselves unable to field competitive players even if we are hit with injuries like we were this year.

One thing is certain, we aren't the only program with stated goals of dominating the new Big Twelve and TCU and KSU seem ahead in that regard with Tech setting up a fully funded effort with new enthusiasm to do the same. We have to have a plan and match the energy those programs are bringing to that effort. We just hope we recognize it and are doing something to get in the fray!
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:



In summary, you think the answer is - quit being lazy or complacent and just recruit better. Correct?

What if I told you landing 4 & 5 star recruits, and some higher rated 3 star recruits is now almost completely out of the control of the coaching staffs and now rests with the booster organizations or individuals that control NIL $$$? Are fans going to celebrate recruiting successes (as measured by stars) as the work of the HC or of the NIL folks? Are fans going to criticize the HC for uncompetitive recruiting classes or blame the lack of NIL$$$?

How can a HC play strictly by the rules (not use the promise of NIL$$$ as a recruiting inducement) and ever get a firm handle on who he can realistically sign and therefore who he and his staff spend time and money recruiting?

Will evaluating and identifying player "potential" out of a much larger pool of 2 & 3 stars become more and more critical for schools that lack substantial NIL$$$? And when a HC turns a 2 star recruit into a 4 or 5 star player, how does he keep that player without substantial NIL$$$ which he has no legal control?

Do facilities, stadiums, training tables, academic services, coaching staffs, culture and program quality become afterthoughts by recruits that focus solely on NIL$$$? If so, as a donor, why would I donate for top-notch facilities and player amenities when recruits only care about NIL$$$?

Bottom line, can a HC be held solely responsible and accountable for talent acquisition and retention when he can't legally be involved in the single biggest factor (NIL$$$) affecting an athletes decision to sign with or stay at a university?

I'm losing interest, rather quickly.


On this ... I completely agree ... down to the last point!
OSUgary
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