Trying to Make Sense of This as Two More Oklahoma State Players Go Portal

CProc7 said:

---

Then the question begs to be asked.. Why are we offering that many more WRs in the portal? The issue at Oklahoma State is almost never WRs. Why be 3 deep at Wr and 1 deep at Tackle lol

---

You have to ask the people that make those decisions, not me, the humble messenger!

I've been calling for him to be fired, before last years Big 12 championship Vs Baylor.

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

---

McCPokes said:

---

Let's not fool ourselves here. TCU is drawing away top SEC players, and yes while they are about to play for a national championship, they aren't an NIL goldmine. We have a coach who, will not accept that Kasey Dunn is not the guy, Gundy said he would be a power 5 head coach, and after this year no one wants that mess, at the end of last season, Dunn was in consideration for ASU. Gundy is the guy, he bleeds state, and he's cleaned up this program, but his loyalty to this guy is going to hurt us going forward. Yeah we need to improve NIL, but we also have to get rid of issues like expired products in this case Kasey Dunn…

---

Are you wanting to get rid of the Kasey Dunn from the first 7 games, or the Kasey Dunn from the last 6? Two completely different rosters.

---

Dunn has taken a looong time to come up to speed calling plays, particularly for someone that had been in the system for over +10 years.

I don't think Dunn can synthesize our Offense, and that he's just adequate at managing it. Ponder Dunns OC ceiling vs Yurcich, Monkey, or Holgys ceilings. Only OC that's taken +10 years to even start figuring things a bit is Dunn.
And for what it's worth, Dunn is the only non QB of the bunch.

This speed bump on WRs is 100% in Dunns wheel house. Our OLine issues are also at least partially on Dunns shoulders.

We love coach Gundy, we get paid good money to run a lousy offense, recruit a subpar offensive line for going on 6+ years now, we only work past 7:00PM rarely cause Coach likes to phone it in and let us spend lots of quality time with our families while making lots of money putting in minimum effort. We have zero concern about the losses to the portal, the portal is just a fad, here today gone tomorrow we all say... Coach having one and possibly soon two of his sons on the team as QB's has absolutely in NO WAY whatsoever affected recruiting of QB's to the program (in all fairness I don't begrudge Coach wanting to coach his son(s), I get it, but it is absolutely bad optics to do so).

One thing we do at times disagree with Coach is his conservatism, and were not referring to his OAN t-shirt, were talking about kicking field goals when we should go for it, idiotic sweeps and or pitches when its 4th and less than a yard and a QB sneak will get the job done, and generally all around uninspiring play calling, I mean when was the last time we did a fake punt or fake field goal around here?

We however are not concerned, because Coach has so many of these idiot OSU homer fans fooled into believing that he is not phoning it in these days, not hopelessly set in his ways, and is definitely willing to change with the times. If that does not fool them though, the rest of them are all so used to being second rate they say OSU can't find anybody better..

Damn glad these folks don't realize they could have hired the Kansas coach, TCU coach, Baylor coach, Zac Robinson, etc., etc., etc...

WeAssistantsLuvGundy said:

---

We love coach Gundy, we get paid good money to run a lousy offense, recruit a subpar offensive line for going on 6+ years now, we only work past 7:00PM rarely cause Coach likes to phone it in and let us spend lots of quality time with our families while making lots of money putting in minimum effort. We have zero concern about the losses to the portal, the portal is just a fad, here today gone tomorrow we all say... Coach having one and possibly soon two of his sons on the team as QB's has absolutely in NO WAY whatsoever affected recruiting of QB's to the program (in all fairness I don't begrudge Coach wanting to coach his son(s), I get it, but it is absolutely bad optics to do so).

One thing we do at times disagree with Coach is his conservatism, and were not referring to his OAN t-shirt, were talking about kicking field goals when we should go for it, idiotic sweeps and or pitches when its 4th and less than a yard and a QB sneak will get the job done, and generally all around uninspiring play calling, I mean when was the last time we did a fake punt or fake field goal around here?

We however are not concerned, because Coach has so many of these idiot OSU homer fans fooled into believing that he is not phoning it in these days, not hopelessly set in his ways, and is definitely willing to change with the times. If that does not fool them though, the rest of them are all so used to being second rate they say OSU can't find anybody better..

Damn glad these folks don't realize they could have hired the Kansas coach, TCU coach, Baylor coach, Zac Robinson, etc., etc., etc...

---

I was wondering what the gossip was down at the beauty parlor. Thanks for the insight.

WeAssistantsLuvGundy said:

---

We love coach Gundy, we get paid good money to run a lousy offense, recruit a subpar offensive line for going on 6+ years now, we only work past 7:00PM rarely cause Coach likes to phone it in and let us spend lots of quality time with our families while making lots of money putting in minimum effort. We have zero concern about the losses to the portal, the portal is just a fad, here today gone tomorrow we all say... Coach having one and possibly soon two of his sons on the team as QB's has absolutely in NO WAY whatsoever affected recruiting of QB's to the program (in all fairness I don't begrudge Coach wanting to coach his son(s), I get it, but it is absolutely bad optics to do so).

One thing we do at times disagree with Coach is his conservatism, and were not referring to his OAN t-shirt, were talking about kicking field goals when we should go for it, idiotic sweeps and or pitches when its 4th and less than a yard and a QB sneak will get the job done, and generally all around uninspiring play calling, I mean when was the last time we did a fake punt or fake field goal around here?

We however are not concerned, because Coach has so many of these idiot OSU homer fans fooled into believing that he is not phoning it in these days, not hopelessly set in his ways, and is definitely willing to change with the times. If that does not fool them though, the rest of them are all so used to being second rate they say OSU can't find anybody better..

Damn glad these folks don't realize they could have hired the Kansas coach, TCU coach, Baylor coach, Zac Robinson, etc., etc., etc...

---

I'm not sure who is approving accounts on this site, but clear-cut trolls like this should be denied.

seriously. What is going on? First we have the I.hate.RA account, now this joker with only 1 post that is a clear troll account.

Ah yes but its highly intelligent trolling, and can it truly be called trolling when what is put in the post is completely true? Do we Assistants not profess our love for the lack of evenings burning the midnight oil pouring over recruit video's, defensive and offensive schemes, etc.. Have we not said on multiple occasions that we enjoy not living at the Football facilities under Coach?

Is Coach not indeed way too conservative in pretty much all aspects of the game?

TCU in Dykes first season as coach is playing for a Championship, while our Coach couldn't rally his team to just beat Iowa St on a Friday evening...

Our Coach has said "I'm not a portal guy", which in Coach's speak that is him saying this is a fad and I am gonna hope it goes away soon. There is another guy over in SEC land who says basically the same thing, granted he has won a National Title or two or three ok its six. We think that guy is in trouble if he does not get with the current fad sweeping the nation called wack a school, aka "The Portal", and he coaches in the SEC, so if he is in trouble, where does that leave Coach and OSU?

So maybe we've only had one post, now two, because our frustration has been festering for years now, and the fact that the entire receiver room got up and entered the Portal overnight, among other things that occurred this season, things like Spencer was obviously too hurt in the 2nd half of the TCU game to complete a pass, and was struggling, and yet Coach refused to pull him or make an adjustment, meanwhile you have the guy over there at Clemson, he is not worried about loyalty or optics, his QB struggled in a game and got yanked and replaced and his guy wasn't even hurt..

We don't hate or wish Coach ill will, we just feel like the fire, desire, and effort isn't there anymore, and We are willing to go out on that limb and look elsewhere for someone who does have those things, even if it means a few losing seasons(FYI next year will be one for sure, so maybe We will just check back with you "there is no better Option/Coach can do no wrong" guys and gals and see where your at after next season).

->>> BTW, paying Head Coaches $5-10mm per year without the ability to control the cost of talent acquisition or retention is not a sustainable business model.

Frankly I'm shocked at the NIL deals being discussed here - $300K for a good Corner, $400K for a QB at oSu.
Assuming a paltry $100K per scholarship player before ensuing out-of-control-spiral, that's $8.5M/year per squad.

Big boy's like Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Texas will lead the meteoric explosion. I'm not even sure that schools like OU or LSU would be able to keep up.

We might have to wait for SEC and Big 10, maybe Big 12+, to secede from NCAA completely to get this fixed.

OT said:

---

->>> BTW, paying Head Coaches $5-10mm per year without the ability to control the cost of talent acquisition or retention is not a sustainable business model.

Frankly I'm shocked at the NIL deals being discussed here - $300K for a good Corner, $400K for a QB at oSu.
Assuming a paltry $100K per scholarship player before ensuing out-of-control-spiral, that's $8.5M/year per squad.

Big boy's like Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Texas will lead the meteoric explosion. I'm not even sure that schools like OU or LSU would be able to keep up.

We might have to wait for SEC and Big 10, maybe Big 12+, to secede from NCAA completely to get this fixed.

---

the cheaters are going to cheat

It is supposed to be some good looking kids getting modeling contracts to pose in under ware not 400k for a QB.

Most of this should be forced to stop immediately.

I don't disagree that he is not innovative and has great strengths in certain areas of offense, but his inability to fix glaring holes in "his" offense, after hours and hours of film showing it, his inability to fix the O Line, injuries or not, Next Man Up, or for him to explore ways to create space in the passing game, the TCU game was the most obvious illustration, while he is turnover prone Spencer could throw deep, we saw it Vs ASU and Central Michigan, but when we play Big12 opponents Dunn plays conservative, and that might be Gundy in his ear, idk, but he would not fix those issues, and if he tried all of his ideas were straight up garbage, it got worse, and if injured Spencer had not come back in we would have lost to Iowa State. Dunn is unable to fix these issues.

McCPokes said:

---

I don't disagree that he is not innovative and has great strengths in certain areas of offense, but his inability to fix glaring holes in "his" offense, after hours and hours of film showing it, his inability to fix the O Line, injuries or not, Next Man Up, or for him to explore ways to create space in the passing game, the TCU game was the most obvious illustration, while he is turnover prone Spencer could throw deep, we saw it Vs ASU and Central Michigan, but when we play Big12 opponents Dunn plays conservative, and that might be Gundy in his ear, idk, but he would not fix those issues, and if he tried all of his ideas were straight up garbage, it got worse, and if injured Spencer had not come back in we would have lost to Iowa State. Dunn is unable to fix these issues.

---

Great post. No, not the content. The fact that you created the longest grammatically incorrect non-sentence in the history of the English language. Bravo

Since when did grammatical accuracy matter in sports forums? We aren't discussing matters of national security. Get off your high horse pal.

McCPokes said:

---

I don't disagree that he is not innovative and has great strengths in certain areas of offense, but his inability to fix glaring holes in "his" offense, after hours and hours of film showing it, his inability to fix the O Line, injuries or not, Next Man Up, or for him to explore ways to create space in the passing game, the TCU game was the most obvious illustration, while he is turnover prone Spencer could throw deep, we saw it Vs ASU and Central Michigan, but when we play Big12 opponents Dunn plays conservative, and that might be Gundy in his ear, idk, but he would not fix those issues, and if he tried all of his ideas were straight up garbage, it got worse, and if injured Spencer had not come back in we would have lost to Iowa State. Dunn is unable to fix these issues.

---

my goodness. I am not a Dunn fan as OC, but this post is just way over the top.

The OC can't fix an OLine with the types of injuries and defections that we had. You can plug somebody in (next man up), but the OLIne is about the guys gelling, knowing their assignments and knowing what the guy beside them is doing. It simply not a plug and play solution, especially facing what we experienced.

Spence was not accurate deep. Hell, he wasn't accurate over the middle either. He was the best we had this year. I don't want to bash the kid, he was the best we had left. ASU and Cent Mich didn't have anybody that could cover our receivers, which had much more to do with Spencer hitting some throws down field.

If Gunnar had finished the ISU game, I am 100% confident we would have still won that game. The defense just plain shut down ISU in the 2nd half... skunked them for most of the 2nd half. Gunnar had the lead at half 10-7, then ISU scored to make it 10-14. We were down by only 4, we did not give up another point, and Gunnar had already chalked up 10. When he threw his 2nd INT, Dad pulled him (despite letting the other QB stay in after he had thrown 3 INTs). Seriously, you're going to go there and claim that Gunnar could not have led the team to 4 more points in 1.5 quarters?

Dunn can't fix rookie QBs being thrown into the mix. Didn't we have some freshman WRs that stepped up last this year and made big contributions.. hmmmm.... oddly Dunn gets no credit for the highlights, only blame in your world.

Dunn could not make Richardson run better than he did the year prior. He could not make Nixon 6-2, 220. He could not instantly grant Ollie a year of Heisman type experience. There are lots of things that Dunn is not able of providing, even if you gave him a couple of more million.

I don't like our offense. I don't like that we seldom use motion or pulling guards or TEs, or lead with a FB, but frankly, I don't know if that is because of Dunn or Gundy. And, those are my preferences, that doesn't mean that they would work at OSU, or that we had the personnel to pull it off.

McCPokes said:

---

Since when did grammatical accuracy matter in sports forums? We aren't discussing matters of national security. Get off your high horse pal.

---

I've always found it much easier to communicate when I use well structured complete sentences utilizing sensible syntax. Further, the manner in which I communicate is both a reflection on my education and a courtesy to the reader. But hey, do it any way you please.

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

---

McCPokes said:

---

Since when did grammatical accuracy matter in sports forums? We aren't discussing matters of national security. Get off your high horse pal.

---

I've always found it much easier to communicate when I use well structured complete sentences utilizing sensible syntax. Further, the manner in which I communicate is both a reflection on my education and a courtesy to the reader. But hey, do it any way you please.

---

and once again... Gumby picks on the user instead of the message. Can this type of stuff stop, please?

CaliforniaCowboy said:

---

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

---

McCPokes said:

---

Since when did grammatical accuracy matter in sports forums? We aren't discussing matters of national security. Get off your high horse pal.

---

I've always found it much easier to communicate when I use well structured complete sentences utilizing sensible syntax. Further, the manner in which I communicate is both a reflection on my education and a courtesy to the reader. But hey, do it any way you please.

---

and once again... Gumby picks on the user instead of the message. Can this type of stuff stop, please?

---

He isn't the only one that can't get the whole grammar and syntax thingy quite right. Uhumm, If you know what I mean.

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

---

CaliforniaCowboy said:

---

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

---

McCPokes said:

---

Since when did grammatical accuracy matter in sports forums? We aren't discussing matters of national security. Get off your high horse pal.

---

I've always found it much easier to communicate when I use well structured complete sentences utilizing sensible syntax. Further, the manner in which I communicate is both a reflection on my education and a courtesy to the reader. But hey, do it any way you please.

---

and once again... Gumby picks on the user instead of the message. Can this type of stuff stop, please?

---

He isn't the only one that can't get the whole grammar and syntax thingy quite right. Uhumm, If you know what I mean.

---

you apparently don't know what I mean. All of us would put up with any spelling or grammar snafus if we didn't have to put up with you bashing everybody about how they type on a freaking telephone..... (oh the irony)

nobody on this forum is submitting their post as their Master's Thesis.

Dunn is entering his 30th year in coaching, almost half his experience is as a wide receiver coach. And for a guy who has played the position, and made a living coaching it, how can he not create spacing? In every game this season, you can look at the film, none of the plays for the receiver corp create spacing on the field, or separation. There are 12 players sandwiched within 20yds of the line of scrimmage for the 1st 6-10 seconds from the snap. Which makes the safety's job so easy. The distance between the safety and the corner is less than 10 yards. And if Spencer is turnover prone, wouldn't it be better to stretch the field? Wouldn't it be better to not stack the 1st 10yards with 8 defenders? Creating more hassle for a weak O line? There is no spacing. I think Dunn has been a great Wide Receiver coach, he's not a great OC nor is he head coaching material. And it's for the simple reason, he cannot manage 5 aspects of the game at the same time. I'm not gonna get into recruiting, but you remove him from OC, we'd see better players walking into and not out of Smith.

Not gonna drag this out, it's a waste of my time. But if what I was typing really mattered to me, I would spend more time on punctuation. But because half of what I say will be criticized anyway and my education and worldview will be called into question anyway. I don't see much of a point in wasting my time with periods, commas, semi colons and the like. But thanks worrying about me.

CaliforniaCowboy said:

---

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

---

CaliforniaCowboy said:

---

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

---

McCPokes said:

---

Since when did grammatical accuracy matter in sports forums? We aren't discussing matters of national security. Get off your high horse pal.

---

I've always found it much easier to communicate when I use well structured complete sentences utilizing sensible syntax. Further, the manner in which I communicate is both a reflection on my education and a courtesy to the reader. But hey, do it any way you please.

---

and once again... Gumby picks on the user instead of the message. Can this type of stuff stop, please?

---

He isn't the only one that can't get the whole grammar and syntax thingy quite right. Uhumm, If you know what I mean.

---

you apparently don't know what I mean. All of us would put up with any spelling or grammar snafus if we didn't have to put up with you bashing everybody about how they type on a freaking telephone..... (oh the irony)

nobody on this forum is submitting their post as their Master's Thesis.

---

Easy, Alice. The original post was just a light-hearted dig meant to give this thread some much needed humor. But you just had to insert yourself and make a big deal out of it.

McCPokes said:

---

Not gonna drag this out, it's a waste of my time. But if what I was typing really mattered to me, I would spend more time on punctuation. But because half of what I say will be criticized anyway and my education and worldview will be called into question anyway. I don't see much of a point in wasting my time with periods, commas, semi colons and the like. But thanks worrying about me.

---

Okie dokie.

If you want a laugh, compare Horns $1M Manning recruit to Rangel and Flores. Manning played against likes of Countryside Christian while Rangel and Flores played big boy ball.

McCPokes said:

---

Dunn is entering his 30th year in coaching, almost half his experience is as a wide receiver coach. And for a guy who has played the position, and made a living coaching it, how can he not create spacing? In every game this season, you can look at the film, none of the plays for the receiver corp create spacing on the field, or separation. There are 12 players sandwiched within 20yds of the line of scrimmage for the 1st 6-10 seconds from the snap. Which makes the safety's job so easy. The distance between the safety and the corner is less than 10 yards. And if Spencer is turnover prone, wouldn't it be better to stretch the field? Wouldn't it be better to not stack the 1st 10yards with 8 defenders? Creating more hassle for a weak O line? There is no spacing. I think Dunn has been a great Wide Receiver coach, he's not a great OC nor is he head coaching material. And it's for the simple reason, he cannot manage 5 aspects of the game at the same time. I'm not gonna get into recruiting, but you remove him from OC, we'd see better players walking into and not out of Smith.

---

Dunn:
A+ Receivers coach
B Offensive play caller, and he's had 2 decades of OJT.

At this point Dunn is not on a trajectory to sniff Yurcich, Monkey, or Holgy levels of play calling. He's just not smart enough to synthesize in real-time the level of play calling required.

OT said:

---

McCPokes said:

---

Dunn is entering his 30th year in coaching, almost half his experience is as a wide receiver coach. And for a guy who has played the position, and made a living coaching it, how can he not create spacing? In every game this season, you can look at the film, none of the plays for the receiver corp create spacing on the field, or separation. There are 12 players sandwiched within 20yds of the line of scrimmage for the 1st 6-10 seconds from the snap. Which makes the safety's job so easy. The distance between the safety and the corner is less than 10 yards. And if Spencer is turnover prone, wouldn't it be better to stretch the field? Wouldn't it be better to not stack the 1st 10yards with 8 defenders? Creating more hassle for a weak O line? There is no spacing. I think Dunn has been a great Wide Receiver coach, he's not a great OC nor is he head coaching material. And it's for the simple reason, he cannot manage 5 aspects of the game at the same time. I'm not gonna get into recruiting, but you remove him from OC, we'd see better players walking into and not out of Smith.

---

Dunn:
A+ Receivers coach
B Offensive play caller, and he's had 2 decades of OJT.

At this point Dunn is not on a trajectory to sniff Yurcich, Monkey, or Holgy levels of play calling. He's just not smart enough to synthesize in real-time the level of play calling required.

---

Hmmm…

Our offense was all-world the first 7 games, but struggled after the injuries piled up at QB, OL, WR and RB.

Our offense was completely and totally inept against the B12s best defense (ISU) for 3 Qtrs……until Spencer Sanders entered the game. All of a sudden, we could move the ball and score.

Other than available personnel, I guess Dunn waffles between greatness and incompetency for no apparent reason.

Gumby, my concerns and assessment of Dunn are not without some thought and consideration.

Just looking at our key losses in the Portal
Offense w/ OC Dunn
- QB1 - Sanders
- RB1 - Richardson
- WR's w/ OC Dunn as WR Position Coach
- Starters/Serious Contributors - Bryson Green, John Paul Richardson
- Serious Dudes in Development - Stephon Johnson,
- Strong Potentials - Lil Presley, Langston Anderson
- I'm guessing half our 4* recruits are Receivers so Dunn should get credit for this pipeline.

Everywhere else our Portal losses are scattered across position groups - LB, S, DT, OL. The only obvious mass exodus is directly in Dunn's personally recruited and coached wheel house.

Your Tale of Two Seasons is a little skewed, but you know this even if it makes an interesting argument.

First half of the season our stats were padded by wins over 4-8 Cent Mich, 3-8 Ark PB, and 3-9 ASU. Note that the signs of structural issues were there (in hind sight) as we did not break 200 yards rushing against any of these crappy teams, and our rushing had to include significant QB running.

But yes, the 2OT play against TCU was a great game. Beating Horns with their sub 50% 5 star QB was fun. The Baylor win was great as well. And then we ended up with a dinged up running QB and OL.

Do you consider Dunn at a program development or playing calling level of Monkey, Holgy or Yurcich?

Don't get me wrong, I think Dunn is an AMAZING WR coach/recruiter and a fine man. But my expectation is that someone 20 years in the system would be pretty damned good by now taking one step up the ladder.

OT said:

---

Gumby, my concerns and assessment of Dunn are not without some thought and consideration.

Just looking at our key losses in the Portal
Offense w/ OC Dunn
- QB1 - Sanders
- RB1 - Richardson
- WR's w/ OC Dunn as WR Position Coach
- Starters/Serious Contributors - Bryson Green, John Paul Richardson
- Serious Dudes in Development - Stephon Johnson,
- Strong Potentials - Lil Presley, Langston Anderson
- I'm guessing half our 4* recruits are Receivers so Dunn should get credit for this pipeline.

Everywhere else our Portal losses are scattered across position groups - LB, S, DT, OL. The only obvious mass exodus is directly in Dunn's personally recruited and coached wheel house.

Your Tale of Two Seasons is a little skewed, but you know this even if it makes an interesting argument.

First half of the season our stats were padded by wins over 4-8 Cent Mich, 3-8 Ark PB, and 3-9 ASU. Note that the signs of structural issues were there (in hind sight) as we did not break 200 yards rushing against any of these crappy teams, and our rushing had to include significant QB running.

But yes, the 2OT play against TCU was a great game. Beating Horns with their sub 50% 5 star QB was fun. The Baylor win was great as well. And then we ended up with a dinged up running QB and OL.

Do you consider Dunn at a program development or playing calling level of Monkey, Holgy or Yurcich?

Don't get me wrong, I think Dunn is an AMAZING WR coach/recruiter and a fine man. But my expectation is that someone 20 years in the system would be pretty damned good by now taking one step up the ladder.

---

Let me start by answering your single question; "Do you consider Dunn at a program development or playing calling level of Monkey, Holgy or Yurcich?"

I have no idea. Dunn is working with different players against very different style of defenses.

That said, here's the way I look at things. The first thing I have to ask myself is - What do I KNOW?
Here's what I KNOW since Dunn took over:

• Our offense is way better when SS is healthy and playing.
• Even with SS at 75%(?), our offense is better with him in than any of our backups.
• The offense performs better when we are healthy on the OL.
• SS is a real weapon running the ball
• The offense performs better when we have experienced production at WR.
• The offense is more productive when we can go turbo mode
• It's more difficult to go turbo when we can't be successful running on first down
• The offense runs the ball better when we have a RB that can either make people miss or break tackles.
• There have been meaningful injuries on the OL, at WR, at QB and at RB since Dunn took over
• There have been meaningful losses to the portal and retirements from the OL

Then I have to ask myself - What don't I know? (this is by no means an exhaustive list, but representative)

• How much or often does the QB make the play call?
• How much or often does the QB get us in the right play pre-snap?
• How much or often does the QB make a bad post-snap read?
• How much or often do our WRs run the incorrect route?
• How much or often do our WRs make the correct or incorrect post-snap adjustment?
• How effective is our center at making the correct line calls?
• How much or often do the OL blow assignments?
• Are blown assignments mental errors, or inexperience?
• Are or OL getting beat by talent or experience?
• Would our blown assignments on the OL be significantly reduced if it weren't for injuries?
• Would we have better available OL personnel if there were fewer transfers or retirements?
• Is the OL just taking longer than expected to gel as a zone-blocking unit?
• Are our running backs making the right read behind zone-blocking?
• Are our OL issues talent, inexperience, conditioning, lack of preparation, other?
• Are our RBs not waiting for their blocks?
• Are the RBs not hitting the cut quick enough?
• How much better would the running game be if we had a RB that could make defenders miss?
• How much better would the running game be if we had a RB that could consistently break tackles?
• Have our opponents become more adept at defending our offense?
• How many of SS misses are inaccuracies, conservative throws to prevent INTs, great coverage, bad routes, bad reads or drops?
• Are Wozniak, Dickie and/or McEndoo giving Dunn bad input?
• Are Wozniak, Dickie and/or McEndoo not efficiently matching our talent with scheme?
• In post-game assessments after film review, are we calling plays that are getting us into favorable amth-ups, or are we missing favorable match-ups?
• In post-game assesments, are we following the gameplan?
• Are our gameplans ill-conceived, or just well defended?
• I could list more, but you get the point.

So, when I sit back and think about the offense there is much more I don't know than I do know. That being the case, how could I ever come to a conclusion as to what if anything needs to be fixed? To be honest, the very last thing I would GUESS needs fixing is the play calls. But that's just a guess.

And I'll throw out a Hogan's Hero quote, "I know nothing." as well.

To be fair, the team last year managed to go 11-2 with a very nice Fiesta Bowl win over a very talented top 10 Notre Dame squad.

And yes, without a healthy SS we're essentially dead in the water offensively. This puts a program in an extremely precarious position. To paraphrase Gundy, "We need mobile QB's in today's game, but I don't want the QB taking hits." for exactly what we've seen this season. SS lands on his throwing shoulder in the Horns game and he's gimped up for a long time.

I break things down as:
- Understand concepts
- Execute concepts
- Synthesize new combinations (of likely existing concepts)
- Synthesize new combinations dynamically (in game adjustments)

We can whinge and groan about "game time adjustments" or "play calling". What we're looking for from out coaches is the ability to Synthesize plays, play sequences, dynamically adjust, and the communicate in with the players such that they are setup for highest probability of Executing when the ball is snapped.

Hard for us to tell from the outside looking in. And I'm not one to whinge on specific play calls because I don't know enough details, and if I did I likely wouldn't be able to process.

There there are no givens in the world. Sometimes it isn't fair regarding injuries (could be a tweaked pinky and dinged ankle) or players had a fight with the girl friend last night. Or a hotshot QB that thinks he can immediately jump to a team with a roadgrader OLine so he can really shine, and also perhaps maybe disenfranchises his buddies to also jump. Or that players got an extra China Virus year of eligibility, if they want it. That definitely messed with the roster management and recruiting, along with the Portal and NIL impacts.

These are all the circumstances that we expect the coaches to somehow minimize.

And who knows what next year looks like. The entire fan base is all a Twitter about the departures. Didn't seem to screw up TCU too badly. Horns took their hit last year but still early.

What if we focus on all the players that aren't flighty? What does the roster look like Jan 19th, there is still a very nice charter plane worth of excellent good talent. Might be a better talent pool overall than last season.

Ollie Gordon might trot out at 220# and even more elusive and quicker next August. Nixon will be a rSoph. Jackson might get better. The incoming kid was a consistent 1000 yard rusher. That's not a bad cup

Rangel was a dude in TX 6A ball and will have a 20 months in system before season opener, after skipping his HS prom. We'll see how quick a study and decision maker under fire he really is. Exciting times.

The only position group that's really "decimated" are WR's, and we have a bunch of very talented dudes on the roster still. The incoming guys look great as well.

We need really smart coaches to navigate all your questions. Guess we'll see.

GO POKES!

OT said:

---

And I'll throw out a Hogan's Hero quote, "I know nothing." as well.

To be fair, the team last year managed to go 11-2 with a very nice Fiesta Bowl win over a very talented top 10 Notre Dame squad.

And yes, without a healthy SS we're essentially dead in the water offensively. This puts a program in an extremely precarious position. To paraphrase Gundy, "We need mobile QB's in today's game, but I don't want the QB taking hits." for exactly what we've seen this season. SS lands on his throwing shoulder in the Horns game and he's gimped up for a long time.

I break things down as:
- Understand concepts
- Execute concepts
- Synthesize new combinations (of likely existing concepts)
- Synthesize new combinations dynamically (in game adjustments)

We can whinge and groan about "game time adjustments" or "play calling". What we're looking for from out coaches is the ability to Synthesize plays, play sequences, dynamically adjust, and the communicate in with the players such that they are setup for highest probability of Executing when the ball is snapped.

Hard for us to tell from the outside looking in. And I'm not one to whinge on specific play calls because I don't know enough details, and if I did I likely wouldn't be able to process.

There there are no givens in the world. Sometimes it isn't fair regarding injuries (could be a tweaked pinky and dinged ankle) or players had a fight with the girl friend last night. Or a hotshot QB that thinks he can immediately jump to a team with a roadgrader OLine so he can really shine, and also perhaps maybe disenfranchises his buddies to also jump. Or that players got an extra China Virus year of eligibility, if they want it. That definitely messed with the roster management and recruiting, along with the Portal and NIL impacts.

These are all the circumstances that we expect the coaches to somehow minimize.

And who knows what next year looks like. The entire fan base is all a Twitter about the departures. Didn't seem to screw up TCU too badly. Horns took their hit last year but still early.

What if we focus on all the players that aren't flighty? What does the roster look like Jan 19th, there is still a very nice charter plane worth of excellent good talent. Might be a better talent pool overall than last season.

Ollie Gordon might trot out at 220# and even more elusive and quicker next August. Nixon will be a rSoph. Jackson might get better. The incoming kid was a consistent 1000 yard rusher. That's not a bad cup

Rangel was a dude in TX 6A ball and will have a 20 months in system before season opener, after skipping his HS prom. We'll see how quick a study and decision maker under fire he really is. Exciting times.

The only position group that's really "decimated" are WR's, and we have a bunch of very talented dudes on the roster still. The incoming guys look great as well.

We need really smart coaches to navigate all your questions. Guess we'll see.

GO POKES!

---

Sounds like you're stuck on "play calls". Based on everything I don't know, and, for the little I do know, Dunn just might be making all the right calls but we're either not talented enough to beat our opponents in individual matchups, not experienced enough to make the correct post-snap adjustments, blowing waaaay to many assignments, or are just not executing at a high enough level. All of which points to issues with personnel, scheme, inexperience, talent and/or conditioning. Who the hell knows?

From my viewpoint, it's almost NEVER as simple as "calling the right play".

"Sounds like you're stuck on "play calls". Based on everything I don't know, and, for the little I do know, Dunn just might be making all the right calls but we're either not talented enough to beat our opponents in individual matchups, not experienced enough to make the correct post-snap adjustments, blowing waaaay to many assignments, or are just not executing at a high enough level. All of which points to issues with personnel, scheme, inexperience, talent and/or conditioning. Who the hell knows?

From my viewpoint, it's almost NEVER as simple as "calling the right play". "


You did a great job of creating a high rez image of everything the OC is required to influence/control, master, and then synthesize, and synthesize on the fly with your list of questions. I'm agreeing with you on is that yes, your laundry list of questions are an excellent outline for the complexity of an OC's world.

Question is if Dunn can synthesize out of this. And I think we would all agree that an OC's play calling can put players into a much better position to "make plays". Not all OC's are equal play callers. I still stand by Holgy, Monkey, and Shippensberg being "elite" play callers. I don't think we've seen "elite" play calling from Coach Dunn.

And 2021 season was a pretty impressive showing for Dunn and the entire team. 2022 wasn't so good and we're disappointed.

OT said:

---

"Sounds like you're stuck on "play calls". Based on everything I don't know, and, for the little I do know, Dunn just might be making all the right calls but we're either not talented enough to beat our opponents in individual matchups, not experienced enough to make the correct post-snap adjustments, blowing waaaay to many assignments, or are just not executing at a high enough level. All of which points to issues with personnel, scheme, inexperience, talent and/or conditioning. Who the hell knows?

From my viewpoint, it's almost NEVER as simple as "calling the right play". "


You did a great job of creating a high rez image of everything the OC is required to influence/control, master, and then synthesize, and synthesize on the fly with your list of questions. I'm agreeing with you on is that yes, your laundry list of questions are an excellent outline for the complexity of an OC's world.

Question is if Dunn can synthesize out of this. And I think we would all agree that an OC's play calling can put players into a much better position to "make plays". Not all OC's are equal play callers. I still stand by Holgy, Monkey, and Shippensberg being "elite" play callers. I don't think we've seen "elite" play calling from Coach Dunn.

And 2021 season was a pretty impressive showing for Dunn and the entire team. 2022 wasn't so good and we're disappointed.

---

If I'm reading your posts correctly, you believe a play caller can "call his way out of" inferior talent, inexperience, blown assignments, lack of conditioning, bad matchups, better defensive play calls, or simply excellent defensive play.

If that's anywhere near where you're coming from, I'm on Mercury and you're on Pluto.

"If I'm reading your posts correctly, you believe a play caller can "call his way out of" inferior talent, inexperience, blown assignments, lack of conditioning, bad matchups, better defensive play calls, or simply excellent defensive play.

If that's anywhere near where you're coming from, I'm on Mercury and you're on Pluto."

Lol. It's a multi dimensional job as OC.
Being "elite" at something will help mitigate deficiencies and game time play calling might be the most visible.

What areas do you consider as Dunn's strengths? What might you see as weaknesses?

"What areas do you consider as Dunn's strengths? What might you see as weaknesses?"

Well, let's examine.

Play Caller: When he has experienced personnel, especially a healthy QB, his offenses seem to operate at a high level. When his offenses are battling injuries and littered with inexperience, especially at QB, his offenses often struggle. Therefore, is inexperience and lesser talent getting in the way of an expanded play list? That's what Gundy says. Are blown assignments on the OL more frequent? That's what Gundy says. Are a less experienced QBs and WRs less likely to be in-sync and less capable of making adjustments or improvising? That's what Gundy says. Can good play calling overcome inexperience, mistakes and lesser talent? The history of football says maybe in isolated spots, but generally, no. Is Dunn a good play caller? Beats me. I'd have to see a comparison of the % of Dunn's situationally acceptable play calls vs the % of Yurcich's (or other) situationally acceptable play calls. (And don't mistake situationally acceptable for successful. A great, situationally acceptable play call can be undone and therefore unsuccessful by a blown assignment, bad read, bad pass, dropped ball, great defensive play, etc...)

Game Planner: Game plans are highly impacted by available personnel, experience, health and injuries, opposing talent, week of the season, other offensive assistants' input and planning, defensive schemes and even your own defensive game plan and capabilities. I suppose a good game plan manifests itself as offensive success. But a good game plan can also result in offensive disaster by turnovers, penalties, blown assignments and stellar defensive play. IMO, there's no objective way of determining the relative strength or weakness of an OC's game planning capabilities except maybe his tenure as the OC at a successful program.

Position Coach: Dunn has had some great receivers. Some of those great receivers were highly rated, others were hardly recruited. On the other hand, Dunn has had some highly rated receivers that can't get out of their own way. The last 2 seasons it doesn't seem like our receivers are open as much as they should be. Is it a WR coaching issue, talent issue, or are the QB's (including Sanders) unable to throw them open? I know most fans consider Dunn a great WR coach. Maybe he is, but if he is I'd think we'd show up better than we have the last 2 seasons.

Talent Evaluator: Again, Dunn has had some great receivers that were highly rated, others were hardly recruited. In those cases, his evaluations have been very good. And again, on the other hand, Dunn has had some highly rated receivers that can't get out of their own way. What I don't know is how WRs that Dunn evaluated as good to great that never made it to campus turned out? What I also don't know is how highly rated WRs that Dunn evaluated as not so good ultimately fared at another school. Is Dunn a great evaluator? I'd tend to say yes, but I really don't know.

Recruiter: As a recruiter if you're getting the recruits you want, and those recruits are rated at or above par relative to the strength of your program, then I guess that makes you a good to great recruiter. But if the recruits you really want are not that highly rated does that in turn make you less than a good to great recruiter? Success in recruiting kinda goes hand-in-hand with evaluation. Unless we know how all his targets rate within Dunn's own evaluation system, I don't know if he's getting what he wants or having to settle for lower rated players because he's not so great at recruiting.

So, to answer your questions: "What areas do you consider as Dunn's strengths? What might you see as weaknesses?"

I have no definitive view. I'd only be guessing.