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Oklahoma State Football

Trying to Make Sense of This as Two More Oklahoma State Players Go Portal

January 4, 2023
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STILLWATER – Two more Oklahoma State players have entered the transfer portal, the second and third in two days.

Sophomore receiver Bryson Green and red-shirt senior defensive tackle Samuela Tuihalamaka are the latest Cowboys to enter the NCAA Transfer Portal, joining receiver John Paul Richardson, who entered into the portal on Tuesday.

The Richardson entry into the transfer portal was a shock. The youngest player to be voted captain in recent and even distant memory, Richardson was off to a great career, but according to our sources wanted more and wasn’t sure he could get that at Oklahoma State. Now another productive receiver has gone in the portal.

NATHAN J FISH/THE OKLAHOMAN / USA TODAY
Green has made some spectacular catches in his career.

Green, a 6-1 sophomore out of Allen (TX) HS played a huge role in the Cowboys’ offense until an injury against Oklahoma in the second-to-last game of the regular season. In 11 games, Green hauled in 36 catches for 584 yards and five touchdowns. He recorded three 100+ yard games, including a career-high 133 yards and one touchdown in the 41-34 win over Texas on Homecoming.

He also posted 115 yards and one touchdown in the 41-31 win over Texas Tech and 105 yards in the 37-16 loss to Kansas.

Green was a key member of the 2021 class and played in 12 games this past season as a true freshman, starting in six. He hauled in 12 catches for 139 yards and two touchdowns.

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Blaine Green is apparently staying at Oklahoma State.

The best game of his freshman season came in the season opener against Missouri State, in which he recorded three receptions for 41 yards.

We’ve tried to learn more about why Green decided to go in the portal, and his brother Blaine, who missed all of the 2022 season with injury did not.

The explanations we received were sketchy but were told it had more to do with playing time and targets than NIL or any other facet of the program. 

Tuihalamaka has one season to play, and he has his degree from Oklahoma State meaning he has potentially good options other than football. The 6-1, 304-pound defensive tackle from Mater Dei High School in Riverside, Calf. has a COVID season available but has exhausted the traditional four seasons in five-years of eligibility. After posting an unassisted and assisted tackle in the bowl loss to Wisconsin, he has 51 total tackles (27 unassisted and 24 assisted) in his Oklahoma State career playing in 34 games. 

Pat Kinnison - Chief Photographer
Tuihalmaka with a tackle against Texas.

This past season was his best year statistically with 23 tackles (10 unassisted and 13 assisted). He also had four tackles-for-loss and one sack. The sack came against Texas Tech as did a tackle-for-loss. He had 1.5 tackles-for-loss in the opener against Central Michigan.

His freshman season Tuihalamaka had 20 total tackles with a sack at West Virginia and he shared in a tackle-for-loss against Tulsa and Texas. 

One source told us that Tuihalamaka was disappointed he didn’t play more in the Guaranteed Rate Bowl with over 40 family members and friends there to see him play.  

Green and Tuihalamaka mark the (14th and 15th) former Cowboy players to enter into the portal, joining Spencer Sanders (QB), John Paul Richardson (WR), Braylin Presley (WR), Eli Russ (OL), Langston Anderson (WR), Dominic Richardson (RB), Jabbar Muhammad (CB), Mason Cobb (LB), Kanion Williams (S/ST), Thomas Harper (DB), Demarco Jones (DB/ST), Trace Ford (DE) and Na’Drian Dizadare.

Coming into the program out of the portal is Washington State wide receiver De’Zhaun Stribling, with OSU having sent out multiple other portal offers as well. Out of the 2023 signing class, OSU added WR/Ath Camron Heard out of Furr HS in Houston, TX.

As you can see, receiver is a position that is in the most transition. One speculation is that the departure of veteran quarterback Spencer Sanders and no established quarterback on the roster, either in waiting or coming from the portal, might have receivers concerned. The offense struggled some with freshman Garret Rangel and red-shirt freshman Gunnar Gundy filling in. Rangel had solid numbers in his first two starts (Kansas and West Virginia) but struggled in the bowl game in part to the struggles of the run game. There is no doubt the offense will be overhauled in the offseason. 

Another potential issue is NIL. Oklahoma State is participating and doing it within the boundaries of the NCAA rules. The rumors are rampant that others are not following the rules and that some Oklahoma State players are being tampered with. It is very hard to discover any hard-core facts on that.

Natural speculation would be about the state of the program and that is for head coach Mike Gundy to determine. One thing is certain, the Cowboys, who have brought in good talent from the portal are again back running at a deficit with these three most recent losses and must work on compensating and if quarterback is a problem, find a way to get a veteran quarterback on the roster to stall the panic and the departures.

Discussion from...

Trying to Make Sense of This as Two More Oklahoma State Players Go Portal

54,739 Views | 137 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by GumbyFromPokeyLand
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to NJAggie • 11:33a, 1/4/23
NJAggie said:
Yep, egos are big, and some want to be the feature whatever, and can't understand why they're not. We've seen several of those in this out bound group. Kids think they'll find a place that will showcase them more and they'll get an NFL shot because of it. The money is really driving so much of this its scary.
And I wouldn't be surprised if parent's egos play a significant role. What parent wouldn't want to say, "Yeah my son wasn't that highly recruited out of HS for whatever reason but look at him now. Everybody wants him" And I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case with JPR.
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Inquisitor
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11:46a, 1/4/23
The Athletic Director and President need to step in now before we lose anyone else. This is not sounding good at all.
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NJAggie
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 12:52p, 1/4/23
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:
NJAggie said:
Yep, egos are big, and some want to be the feature whatever, and can't understand why they're not. We've seen several of those in this out bound group. Kids think they'll find a place that will showcase them more and they'll get an NFL shot because of it. The money is really driving so much of this its scary.
And I wouldn't be surprised if parent's egos play a significant role. What parent wouldn't want to say, "Yeah my son wasn't that highly recruited out of HS for whatever reason but look at him now. Everybody wants him" And I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case with JPR.
From what RA has said regarding JPR is that his parents weren't the driver here. In fact he thought his Dad had told him he should stay because he was in a great position. But, JPR wanted to be the #1 receiver and didn't see him getting past BP.

As for Bryson Green, it seems he was upset that they went in the portal for additional outside receivers. and that could also be driving other outside WR's making decisions.

But as much as we've lost, other schools have taken bigger hits this year. And if they're concerned about QB, then its not a team level concern, but how not having the best QB is going to hurt their NFL chances (or at least NIL chances).

Most of this is a perfect storm. This was a bad year to have a rebounding offense that fell apart the 2nd half of the season leading to 1-6 results. Seriously had we beaten 2 more of those teams (and WVU, OU, or Wisconsin were there to be won if we had any offense) most of this doesn't happen. But that's now the world of CFB, and it's a tough one for the coaches.

I think it's going to be harder for HS players to earn opportunities going forward. Most will have to go lower divisions, G5, or Juco, and work their way into P5 as the schools like OSU and most in the B12 will have to start living on the portal, to get kids that can't transfer at will to be able to keep a roster mostly intact.
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to NJAggie • 1:03p, 1/4/23
NJAggie said:
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:
NJAggie said:
Yep, egos are big, and some want to be the feature whatever, and can't understand why they're not. We've seen several of those in this out bound group. Kids think they'll find a place that will showcase them more and they'll get an NFL shot because of it. The money is really driving so much of this its scary.
And I wouldn't be surprised if parent's egos play a significant role. What parent wouldn't want to say, "Yeah my son wasn't that highly recruited out of HS for whatever reason but look at him now. Everybody wants him" And I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case with JPR.
From what RA has said regarding JPR is that his parents weren't the driver here. In fact he thought his Dad had told him he should stay because he was in a great position. But, JPR wanted to be the #1 receiver and didn't see him getting past BP.

As for Bryson Green, it seems he was upset that they went in the portal for additional outside receivers. and that could also be driving other outside WR's making decisions.

But as much as we've lost, other schools have taken bigger hits this year. And if they're concerned about QB, then its not a team level concern, but how not having the best QB is going to hurt their NFL chances (or at least NIL chances).

Most of this is a perfect storm. This was a bad year to have a rebounding offense that fell apart the 2nd half of the season leading to 1-6 results. Seriously had we beaten 2 more of those teams (and WVU, OU, or Wisconsin were there to be won if we had any offense) most of this doesn't happen. But that's now the world of CFB, and it's a tough one for the coaches.

I think it's going to be harder for HS players to earn opportunities going forward. Most will have to go lower divisions, G5, or Juco, and work their way into P5 as the schools like OSU and most in the B12 will have to start living on the portal, to get kids that can't transfer at will to be able to keep a roster mostly intact.
Yeah, since I typed that I've listened to RA. So, I mostly agree.

Also, Muhammed getting $300k to go to Washington, and Sanders walking away while making $400k is kinda sobering. Which begs another question. Did Sanders get the entire $400k, and is looking for yet another payday? Can't imagine Stan Clark is really thrilled after signing Sanders to an NIL deal late last semester.
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NJAggie
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 1:33p, 1/4/23
Yeah, I would think Stan has been around long enough to have not paid out everything up front, or has some recourse if he did. As getting paid for how you play is one thing. Taking the money and running before the contract is even dry off the printer is another.

If Sanders does come back it would probably be at a discount for NIL.

I see a lot being made out of Sanders yelling at the coaches during Bedlam. I'm hoping that is once again something being overblown by the Gundy haters. Frankly I think he was correct to be yelling at them. And, I'd hope that the coaches accepted it and moved forward. And as for him not playing vs WVU, I think they had to bench him as he needed to rest, and WVU was not a game we had to win. Our bowl life was set regardless, and we needed to not get anyone else hurt. The hope being he'd have been near full health for the Bowl game. And, had he stuck it out stayed on roster and played in the bowl he'd have gotten another win, as he'd have eaten that Wisconsin D alive.
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to NJAggie • 1:55p, 1/4/23
NJAggie said:
Yeah, I would think Stan has been around long enough to have not paid out everything up front, or has some recourse if he did. As getting paid for how you play is one thing. Taking the money and running before the contract is even dry off the printer is another.

If Sanders does come back it would probably be at a discount for NIL.

I see a lot being made out of Sanders yelling at the coaches during Bedlam. I'm hoping that is once again something being overblown by the Gundy haters. Frankly I think he was correct to be yelling at them. And, I'd hope that the coaches accepted it and moved forward. And as for him not playing vs WVU, I think they had to bench him as he needed to rest, and WVU was not a game we had to win. Our bowl life was set regardless, and we needed to not get anyone else hurt. The hope being he'd have been near full health for the Bowl game. And, had he stuck it out stayed on roster and played in the bowl he'd have gotten another win, as he'd have eaten that Wisconsin D alive.


I've totally ignored the Gundy haters that want to make something out of Sanders behavior at Bedlam. There's only a million or two possible reasons for an undisclosed outburst. On one hand we have fans that want Gundy to show emotion while at the same time calling Sanders show of emotion an indication of a problem. The psychoanalysis by our fans of all things Cowboy sports is ………..um, interesting.
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PaloDuroPoke
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2:21p, 1/4/23
My gosh because someone connects Sanders displeasure with coaches as a reason for leaving does not make you a Gundy Hater. It's just an observation by some. I assume it probably contributed to Sanders frustration with our simplistic offense and conservative coaching philosophy. Psychoanalyst? The only analyzing being done is you judging fans you disagree with. You or I neither one or anyone else on this board knows anything that's running through these kids heads. It's all speculation and shouldn't be used as a reason to call people names. Just my two cents.
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Pokes4158
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2:44p, 1/4/23
Well this puts us back on track to be in the big 12 title race in 9-10 years so everything is normal right?
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CProc7
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3:24p, 1/4/23
We've always been a farm club for bigger schools to take our coaches now we coach up 2 and 3 stars for bigger schools to take their pick.
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to PaloDuroPoke • 3:42p, 1/4/23
PaloDuroPoke said:
My gosh because someone connects Sanders displeasure with coaches as a reason for leaving does not make you a Gundy Hater. It's just an observation by some. I assume it probably contributed to Sanders frustration with our simplistic offense and conservative coaching philosophy. Psychoanalyst? The only analyzing being done is you judging fans you disagree with. You or I neither one or anyone else on this board knows anything that's running through these kids heads. It's all speculation and shouldn't be used as a reason to call people names. Just my two cents.


Maybe you're right. We shouldn't be speculating what's running through these kids heads to be used as a reason to make coaching changes. SMH
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Robert Allen
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In reply to Doug Gosney • 3:57p, 1/4/23
Staff
Here would be my depth chart as it stands this afternoon:

X - De'Zhaun Stribling, Blaine Green, Rashod Owens
Z - Jaden Bray, Talyn Shettron, Mason Gilkey
Slot - Brennan Presley, Cale Cabbiness, Cam'Ron Heard (Fr.)

They will be looking for more additions in the portal.
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Roughrider
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4:41p, 1/4/23
Ha. RA you think Presley is staying? We will just have to see. Hearing lots of rumors about Dunn being a terrible person to players. Gundy better get off autopilot and save the program.
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Duke Silver
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4:57p, 1/4/23
Maybe Sanders yelled at coaches because he is toxic
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Csquaredosu66
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In reply to Duke Silver • 4:59p, 1/4/23
Duke Silver said:
Maybe Sanders yelled at coaches because he is toxic
maybe he was tired of the following reptitvie play calling...

1st down - Run up the middle
2nd down - deep ball (force it)
3rd down - Run up the middle or keep it and go get the 1st
4th down - look for JPR
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Duke Silver
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In reply to Csquaredosu66 • 5:08p, 1/4/23
Csquaredosu66 said:
Duke Silver said:
Maybe Sanders yelled at coaches because he is toxic
maybe he was tired of the following reptitvie play calling...

1st down - Run up the middle
2nd down - deep ball (force it)
3rd down - Run up the middle or keep it and go get the 1st
4th down - look for JPR


Maybe it was because him. He didn't progress and our playcalling was because he was a manager and not a difference maker. He couldn't stop throwing the ball to the wrong side
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Csquaredosu66
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In reply to Duke Silver • 5:12p, 1/4/23
Duke Silver said:
Csquaredosu66 said:
Duke Silver said:
Maybe Sanders yelled at coaches because he is toxic
maybe he was tired of the following reptitvie play calling...

1st down - Run up the middle
2nd down - deep ball (force it)
3rd down - Run up the middle or keep it and go get the 1st
4th down - look for JPR


Maybe it was because him. He didn't progress and our playcalling was because he was a manager and not a difference maker. He couldn't stop throwing the ball to the wrong side
100% disagree and I could be wrong...when protected, he was one of the best college football players in the country.
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Duke Silver
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In reply to Csquaredosu66 • 5:23p, 1/4/23
Csquaredosu66 said:
Duke Silver said:
Csquaredosu66 said:
Duke Silver said:
Maybe Sanders yelled at coaches because he is toxic
maybe he was tired of the following reptitvie play calling...

1st down - Run up the middle
2nd down - deep ball (force it)
3rd down - Run up the middle or keep it and go get the 1st
4th down - look for JPR


Maybe it was because him. He didn't progress and our playcalling was because he was a manager and not a difference maker. He couldn't stop throwing the ball to the wrong side
100% disagree and I could be wrong...when protected, he was one of the best college football players in the country.


You are within your rights to disagree
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Robert Allen
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In reply to Roughrider • 5:29p, 1/4/23
Staff
I've been told that Presley is committed to staying. He dates Kasey Dunn's daughter and he has a good NIL deal through PWAP, so that is all I know. I also know they are recruiting some more receivers in the portal. I think there is a lot of rumor and bad information out there that honestly make the job harder to get things done. I know there are two (portal) players visiting right now. I can't believe all this helps, but what is going to happen and what people are going to do is what they do. This happens with all fan bases.
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TXPokeEnding
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5:30p, 1/4/23
It's situations like this where the whole Head Coach as CEO analogy breaks down. CEO's of large businesses report to a Board of Directors. In healthy organizations, the Board is highly engaged and holds the CEO accountable for a set of results. Results will include financial performance and growth goals, and these days often includes employee engagement goals (measured by metrics such as voluntary turnover and 3rd party anonymous survey results).

The point is, the head coach doesn't seem to be a CEO. No Board of Directors (at least that I can see). He seems to be set up as more of a monarch. I don't say this disparagingly. Please read on.

I think HCMG has done an amazing job and I have supported him and continue to do so. But he is in a terrible position now. Monarchs miss the building revolution. CEO's having critical dialogue with a strong Board can challenge assumptions, leading to either staying the course with everyone now on the same page or perhaps lead to healthy and necessary changes. Everything might be just fine, or he might need to challenge the way he's been running the organization. He needs external, multiple view, honest feedback from those holding him accountable to clear expectations of performance.
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to TXPokeEnding • 5:36p, 1/4/23
TXPoke4Life said:
It's situations like this where the whole Head Coach as CEO analogy breaks down. CEO's of large businesses report to a Board of Directors. In healthy organizations, the Board is highly engaged and holds the CEO accountable for a set of results. Results will include financial performance and growth goals, and these days often includes employee engagement goals (measured by metrics such as voluntary turnover and 3rd party anonymous survey results).

The point is, the head coach doesn't seem to be a CEO. No Board of Directors (at least that I can see). He seems to be set up as more of a monarch. I don't say this disparagingly. Please read on.

I think HCMG has done an amazing job and I have supported him and continue to do so. But he is in a terrible position now. Monarchs miss the building revolution. CEO's having critical dialogue with a strong Board can challenge assumptions, leading to either staying the course with everyone now on the same page or perhaps lead to healthy and necessary changes. Everything might be just fine, or he might need to challenge the way he's been running the organization. He needs external, multiple view, honest feedback from those holding him accountable to clear expectations of performance.


In a make sense world, that all sounds fine. But when the CEO is powerless to offer or control the biggest incentive (NIL$$$) available to acquire or retain talent, it's time to consider a different set of metrics to evaluate the performance of an organization.
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Duke Silver
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 5:43p, 1/4/23
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:
TXPoke4Life said:
It's situations like this where the whole Head Coach as CEO analogy breaks down. CEO's of large businesses report to a Board of Directors. In healthy organizations, the Board is highly engaged and holds the CEO accountable for a set of results. Results will include financial performance and growth goals, and these days often includes employee engagement goals (measured by metrics such as voluntary turnover and 3rd party anonymous survey results).

The point is, the head coach doesn't seem to be a CEO. No Board of Directors (at least that I can see). He seems to be set up as more of a monarch. I don't say this disparagingly. Please read on.

I think HCMG has done an amazing job and I have supported him and continue to do so. But he is in a terrible position now. Monarchs miss the building revolution. CEO's having critical dialogue with a strong Board can challenge assumptions, leading to either staying the course with everyone now on the same page or perhaps lead to healthy and necessary changes. Everything might be just fine, or he might need to challenge the way he's been running the organization. He needs external, multiple view, honest feedback from those holding him accountable to clear expectations of performance.


In a make sense world, that all sounds fine. But when the CEO is powerless to offer or control the biggest incentive (NIL$$$) available to acquire or retain talent, it's time to consider a different set of metrics to evaluate the performance of an organization.


This. Good lord with the gundy stuff
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Doug Gosney
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In reply to Robert Allen • 5:43p, 1/4/23
Thanks RA. Despite a really tough today , that's a pretty solid looking group. No way to sugar coat the bruising losses from the last 24 hours - but if we can hang on to this group and maybe add, we can start to bounce back. At some point the folks remaining have to see more opportunities for themselves that would encourage them to stay. Right? Appreciate the response. Thanks.
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to Duke Silver • 5:52p, 1/4/23
Duke Silver said:
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:
TXPoke4Life said:
It's situations like this where the whole Head Coach as CEO analogy breaks down. CEO's of large businesses report to a Board of Directors. In healthy organizations, the Board is highly engaged and holds the CEO accountable for a set of results. Results will include financial performance and growth goals, and these days often includes employee engagement goals (measured by metrics such as voluntary turnover and 3rd party anonymous survey results).

The point is, the head coach doesn't seem to be a CEO. No Board of Directors (at least that I can see). He seems to be set up as more of a monarch. I don't say this disparagingly. Please read on.

I think HCMG has done an amazing job and I have supported him and continue to do so. But he is in a terrible position now. Monarchs miss the building revolution. CEO's having critical dialogue with a strong Board can challenge assumptions, leading to either staying the course with everyone now on the same page or perhaps lead to healthy and necessary changes. Everything might be just fine, or he might need to challenge the way he's been running the organization. He needs external, multiple view, honest feedback from those holding him accountable to clear expectations of performance.


In a make sense world, that all sounds fine. But when the CEO is powerless to offer or control the biggest incentive (NIL$$$) available to acquire or retain talent, it's time to consider a different set of metrics to evaluate the performance of an organization.


This. Good lord with the gundy stuff


Imagine an organization where the BOD determine the salaries of its officers, but the salaries of all non- officers is determined and controlled by its customers. Nucking Futs!!!
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PaloDuroPoke
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 5:55p, 1/4/23
You are exactly right. Some things are out of our head coaches hands and NIL is one of them. The things that NIL represents is in direct conflict with everything he stands for and has built this program around. Culture, loyalty, hard work, development. It's been what I've been most proud of and willing to support. I know this much. Coach Gundy is trying like hell to figure out how to transition in this new world. I think he will. No one knows what's happening behind the scenes but coach and I think he is definitely earning that salary right now. Take a deep breath and let play out.
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NJAggie
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In reply to PaloDuroPoke • 6:10p, 1/4/23
PaloDuroPoke said:
My gosh because someone connects Sanders displeasure with coaches as a reason for leaving does not make you a Gundy Hater. It's just an observation by some. I assume it probably contributed to Sanders frustration with our simplistic offense and conservative coaching philosophy. Psychoanalyst? The only analyzing being done is you judging fans you disagree with. You or I neither one or anyone else on this board knows anything that's running through these kids heads. It's all speculation and shouldn't be used as a reason to call people names. Just my two cents.
Well I've seen little of hey maybe Sanders was upset with the play calling and that may be why he left.

I've seen a ton of that shows that Gundy and the rest of the staff should have been fired in Norman that day (or at any point since he took the job), and everyone is leaving because of it. Oddly the ones that have been pumping that line for weeks now are the same old group that have been attacking Gundy since he returned to be OC. So sorry if calling out those that have created a firestorm of internet blather based on something as innocent as a frustrated Sr QB yelling at a coach.

Calling out those people is not name calling it's just stating the facts that we have a very vocal and illogical faction of fans that attack Gundy and some portion of the staff at every turn, and right now they're running amok out there. And, its being fueled by a lot of OKC media figures. Not to mention a few sites as well.
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LS1Z28
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6:15p, 1/4/23
The world of college sports is changing rapidly. With the transfer portal and immediate eligibility, coaches now have to constantly re-recruit every player on their roster. If what happened in 2020 is any indication, this doesn't appear to be something that Coach Gundy excels at.

I really hope that the NCAA reinstates the rule requiring a player to sit out a year after transferring. They can't control NIL, but this is something they can control. This type of roster turnover isn't healthy for the game.
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TXPokeEnding
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 6:22p, 1/4/23
But this is true in every organization. The market controls the compensation of every employee.

In my previous non-retired life, the professionals and other talent in my organization were constantly being lured by greener pastures by competitors. Comp packages were a constant challenge. Keeping up included providing a great place to work, plus market compensation. No way around it. We were usually "the hunters" because we kept ahead of the change curve. A strong and informed Board of Directors challenging the CEO was critical to keeping up.

NIL is nothing more than a market-based compensation challenge. The cycle of change is accelerating and we need to keep up (or not). There are no excuses in a free market. Only those innovating and those going too slow. Those hunting or those hunted as prey.
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TXPokeEnding
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 6:25p, 1/4/23
You are making my point. Adapt to the market or die. CEO's don't get the luxury of controlling the market.

A CEO needs a strong Board of Directors. Monarchs may or may not adapt at the rate of necessary change. Who provides HCMG with the value of a strong BOD?
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to TXPokeEnding • 7:55p, 1/4/23
TXPoke4Life said:
But this is true in every organization. The market controls the compensation of every employee.

In my previous non-retired life, the professionals and other talent in my organization were constantly being lured by greener pastures by competitors. Comp packages were a constant challenge. Keeping up included providing a great place to work, plus market compensation. No way around it. We were usually "the hunters" because we kept ahead of the change curve. A strong and informed Board of Directors challenging the CEO was critical to keeping up.

NIL is nothing more than a market-based compensation challenge. The cycle of change is accelerating and we need to keep up (or not). There are no excuses in a free market. Only those innovating and those going too slow. Those hunting or those hunted as prey.


Well, that's just not true. Yes the "market" determines the compensation range for all types of employees - as determined by the CEOs that assess employees value and contribution, not customers who are not equipped to determine an employees value and contribution. Further, all CEOs have access to and the ability to determine and pay market based compensation in every viable organization. But in college football, the CEOs have no control over compensation for the players. None whatsoever. If a booster group wants to pay their starting QB $2mm ( Caleb Williams) that's their choice, not the HC. And I doubt it's something any HC would endorse because it's unsustainable. If a booster group is unwilling to pay more than $400k for their starting QB (SS), then there's nothing the HC can do to retain him - unlike a typical CEO. The point of all this is the success of a program is no longer solely in the hands of the HC. It's now unreasonable to hold the HC 100% accountable for the success of the program.
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to TXPokeEnding • 7:59p, 1/4/23
TXPoke4Life said:
You are making my point. Adapt to the market or die. CEO's don't get the luxury of controlling the market.

A CEO needs a strong Board of Directors. Monarchs may or may not adapt at the rate of necessary change. Who provides HCMG with the value of a strong BOD?


Gundy's BOD ( Shrum, Weiburg and the Regents) do not control the amount, disbursement or control of NIL$$$. How can anyone reasonably hold either Gundy or the BOD accountable for the impact of (positive or negative) NIL on OSU sports programs?
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 8:08p, 1/4/23
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:
TXPoke4Life said:
But this is true in every organization. The market controls the compensation of every employee.

In my previous non-retired life, the professionals and other talent in my organization were constantly being lured by greener pastures by competitors. Comp packages were a constant challenge. Keeping up included providing a great place to work, plus market compensation. No way around it. We were usually "the hunters" because we kept ahead of the change curve. A strong and informed Board of Directors challenging the CEO was critical to keeping up.

NIL is nothing more than a market-based compensation challenge. The cycle of change is accelerating and we need to keep up (or not). There are no excuses in a free market. Only those innovating and those going too slow. Those hunting or those hunted as prey.


na
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TXPokeEnding
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 8:50p, 1/4/23
You have a misunderstanding of what "the market" means. The market includes all actors.
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9:27p, 1/4/23
Only a little inspection of our Reciever Whisperer OC that day one of portal started offering multiple WRs when we were 3 deep with young ones already. Sure offer the 6'7" giant, but what was up with all the other offers. Head scratcher

Would have thought an OC with a nonexistent run game would be doubling up on OL and FBs offers, but what do I know.

And I'll pile on. Gundy isn't a "statesman" or mushy aunt Edna type. Even has a temper when it comes to punky mouth pieces. That's our HC for ya.

The players that trot out for spring ball are EXACTLY WHO WE ROLL WITH. Go Pokes!

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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to TXPokeEnding • 9:55p, 1/4/23
TXPoke4Life said:
You have a misunderstanding of what "the market" means. The market includes all actors.


No I don't. I lived it my entire career.

Your mistake is trying to equate 1) the employment market to the NIL market, and 2) who oversees the implementation of the employment market vs the NIL market.

Let me illustrate.

Generally speaking, in industry (top 500 companies???) the pay scale industry wide (sometimes adjusted for location differences) for a particular job is within a pretty tight range. Accounting staff, clerical staff, IT staff, general labor staff, etc demand compensation within a range. Why? Because that's how CEO's both manage to hire and retain the talent to execute their business plan in tandem with managing their P&L. Business 101.

But it's a much different situation in college football from both a "market" compensation viewpoint and a management viewpoint. There are 130 programs competing for the same prize. Or just 65 P5 programs competing for the same prize. Take your pick. I don't think there is any question as to whether all 130 (or 65) programs are in the same universe with respect to NIL funding. They're not. And it's not close. Just to make some numbers up let's say the aTms, UTs and tOSUs of the world have an NIL budget of $5mm. And let's say the Alabamas, Clemsons, OUs, PSUs of the world have a NIL budget of $3mm. And let's say the OSUs, Baylors, Utahs, Wisconsins, of the world have a NIL budget of $1.5mm. And let's say the KSUs, ISUs, UHs, WFs, WSUs of the world have a NIL budget of $500k. Yes I know, the numbers and schools aren't real, but they are directionally representative of the differences in funding. So if there's a team with $5mm to spend on a roster vs a team that only has $500k to spend, how is the market for a particular position the same throughout D1 or even P5? It's not. Some booster groups will pay their QB $2mm. Others will only be able to afford $100k or less. That's a wildly different market for the same position. And the HC has no control over it. None.

So what's going to happen? Quickly there will be a NIL market established for CFP contenders (tier 1), conference championship contenders (tier 2), .500 teams (tier 3) and bottom feeders (tier 4). Or some such.

But here's the rub, especially as it relates to OSU. OSU in this scenario probably falls into tier 3 in both funding and ultimately results - neither of which is reflective of the quality of the current OSU program, facilities or coaches. But will our fans hold our HC accountable for running a team with tier 3 NIL funding, tier 2 funding or tier 1 funding?
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 10:22p, 1/4/23
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:
TXPoke4Life said:
You have a misunderstanding of what "the market" means. The market includes all actors.


No I don't. I lived it my entire career.

Your mistake is trying to equate 1) the employment market to the NIL market, and 2) who oversees the implementation of the employment market vs the NIL market.

Let me illustrate.

Generally speaking, in industry (top 500 companies???) the pay scale industry wide (sometimes adjusted for location differences) for a particular job is within a pretty tight range. Accounting staff, clerical staff, IT staff, general labor staff, etc demand compensation within a range. Why? Because that's how CEO's both manage to hire and retain the talent to execute their business plan in tandem with managing their P&L. Business 101.

But it's a much different situation in college football from both a "market" compensation viewpoint and a management viewpoint. There are 130 programs competing for the same prize. Or just 65 P5 programs competing for the same prize. Take your pick. I don't think there is any question as to whether all 130 (or 65) programs are in the same universe with respect to NIL funding. They're not. And it's not close. Just to make some numbers up let's say the aTms, UTs and tOSUs of the world have an NIL budget of $5mm. And let's say the Alabamas, Clemsons, OUs, PSUs of the world have a NIL budget of $3mm. And let's say the OSUs, Baylors, Utahs, Wisconsins, of the world have a NIL budget of $1.5mm. And let's say the KSUs, ISUs, UHs, WFs, WSUs of the world have a NIL budget of $500k. Yes I know, the numbers and schools aren't real, but they are directionally representative of the differences in funding. So if there's a team with $5mm to spend on a roster vs a team that only has $500k to spend, how is the market for a particular position the same throughout D1 or even P5? It's not. Some booster groups will pay their QB $2mm. Others will only be able to afford $100k or less. That's a wildly different market for the same position. And the HC has no control over it. None.

So what's going to happen? Quickly there will be a NIL market established for CFP contenders (tier 1), conference championship contenders (tier 2), .500 teams (tier 3) and bottom feeders (tier 4). Or some such.

But here's the rub, especially as it relates to OSU. OSU in this scenario probably falls into tier 3 in both funding and ultimately results - neither of which is reflective of the quality of the current OSU program, facilities or coaches. But will our fans hold our HC accountable for running a team with tier 3 NIL funding, tier 2 funding or tier 1 funding?


BTW, paying Head Coaches $5-10mm per year without the ability to control the cost of talent acquisition or retention is not a sustainable business model.
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