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Oklahoma State Football

Flores Deserved Better Ratings (Stars) Than He Got, Now it's Happening, Sort of

February 7, 2023
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STILLWATER – Lets call this a rant story. Every so often every writer deserves a rant story. I’ve been talking until I’m blue in the face for close to a year that Gretna High School quarterback and now OKlahoma State freshman Zane Flores is not a three-star quarterback. From the day I first head of Flores as Oklahoma State began recruiting and offered the 6-3, 190-pound junior that had led his team to the Class A State Championship (largest class) only to have taken away because of the use of an ineligible player, I was impressed. Flores made a spring official visit to Stillwater and shortly after committed to the Cowboys. 

Robert Allen - Pokes Report
Flores was always impressive when I saw him throw including this camp in Stillwater.

The more you saw, the more schools like Ohio State, Notre Dame, and homestate Nebraska doubled down on offering him, and then a better than average performance at Elite 11 quarterback competition made me think Flores is going to climb above the three-star status. 

Despite the senior season that saw him throw for 3,117 yards and 31 touchdowns and rush for 274 yards and 10 scores. He took his team back to the Nebraska Class A State Championship and despite throwing for 414-yards and three touchdowns in the game they lost on a last play 45-yard field goal 43-41. Flores, holding the all-time Nebraska prep records for any class with passing yards (9,163) and completed passes (724); and the all-time 11-man touchown passes record (82) breaking Scott Frost’s old record of 67; was also the Gatorade and MaxPrep Player of the Year in Nebraska.  

What’s a guy got to do to get a fourth star? 

Robert Allen - Pokes Report
Flores (right with his back to the camera has made a good transition to training at Oklahoma State.

It doesn’t matter now. The Oklahoma State strength and condiditoning coaches as a group say Flores has come in and displayed terrific work ethic, leadership, and explosive athletic skills. Flores is now in a world where stars don’t matter. Quarterback coach Tim Rattay loved what he saw when he brought Flores to the attention of offensive coordinator Kasey Dunn and head coach Mike Gundy. 

This past week The Athletic had their ace college recruiting writer Ari Wasserman and three other reporters with Big 12 backgrounds analyze the winners and top players in the Big 12 2023 recruiting class

One question was which quarterback besides Texas freshman and five-star Arch Manning could you see earning a start in the Big 12 as a freshman in the 2023 season? Max Olson had an interesting answer.

“There are a couple interesting candidates beyond Texas and Oklahoma this year,” Max Olson wrote in starting his answer. “Three-star signee Zane Flores is walking into a potentially ideal situation at Oklahoma State with a young QB room (Garret Rangel, Gunnar Gundy) that added grad transfer Alan Bowman, who hasn’t started a game since 2020. I’ll be curious to see if he can put himself in position to play early there.

Then the question was asked what non blue-chip (four or five-star) player do you most like in this 2023 recruiting class? Here is where Ari Wasserman chimed in.

“Zane Flores is a prospect who has piqued my interest for a while now,” Wasserman wrote somewhat suggesting he agreed that Flores should have had another star next to his name. “Though I’m not sure he’ll be ready to start for the Cowboys in Year 1 — though weirder things have happened — he is the type of prospect who could make those who passed on him regret it, namely Nebraska. He has the traits to develop into a big-time stud, and he accounted for more than 3,000 yards and 31 touchdowns through the air and added 10 rushing touchdowns in his senior season. The Big 12 is known for star quarterbacks who came out of nowhere. Flores could be another one.”

Finally, this Sunday there will be two Big 12 quarterbacks starting in Super Bowl LVII with Jalen Hurts of the Eagles and former Texas Tech quarterback Patrick Mahomes for the Chiefs. Mahomes, playing at Whitehouse High School in East Texas had similar numbers and a similar skill set to Flores. I’m not saying Flores will turn out to be just like Mahomes. It’d be nice. 

I’m just pointing out in my rant story that Mahomes was slighted similar to Flores for his high school ability and aomplishments. His high school coach Adam Cook documented his opinion for the Ari Timpkin and former Iowa State and NFL quarterback Dave Archer on Sirius-XM’s Big 12 This Morning. 

Whitehouse High School
Mahomes on sidelines with Coach Aadm Cook (on headsets).

“The three schools that ended up offering him were Houston, North Texas, and, if course, Texas Tech,” Cook then the head coach and athletic director at Whitehouse, said for SXM. “Eevery coach that came in was impressed with Patrick when they got to see him and met with him. But everybody was like, do we take a chance on this guy because he’s a three-star. You know I’ve made comments on how the star guy needed to get fired. It is really all in fun because the coach in me believes everybody needs that star guy to keep you in check and motivate you, so it’s like I’m talking out of both sides of my mouth.”

I appreciate Cook’s thought. Flores has never spoke of his prep prospect rating, and I don’t think he ever would. I do hope he will always keep it in mind. I like the motivational angle to it. 

Discussion from...

Flores Deserved Better Ratings (Stars) Than He Got, Now it's Happening, Sort of

7,682 Views | 43 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Joe Khatib
TUSKAPOKE
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Glad he is a Cowboy!!! I believe a super QB prospect. Let's have some fun and show doubters he's the real deal. GO POKES!!!
CanadianCowboy
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I'm enthused about Flores joining O-State and truly believe he will be The Guy that makes the offense explode once again when his time to Cowboy Up comes. Go Pokes!
CProc7
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He might have a really good shot at starting year one. Bowman has had a lot of injury issues and Rangel didn't get a great look because of Oline injury/depth problems. I'm excited for the future.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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Unless he initially shows an unbelievable grasp of the offense combined with almost perfect execution, there's no way he gets enough snaps to earn the job. Bowman will get the vast majority of the first team snaps, especially when the entire offense is learning a significantly different playbook.

Edit: Flores likely won't get more than a typical 4th string QB.
Pokes4158
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Explain the vastly different playbook part
Pokes4158
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Sorry significantly different
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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Pokes4158 said:

Explain the vastly different playbook part


Use of TEs and gap scheme run blocking instead of zone blocking. My guess is the RPO run/pass game (and some of the reads) will also be somewhat different.
gary121853
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RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
OSUgary
Joe Khatib
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gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!
PokeSmot75
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Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.

GumbyFromPokeyLand
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PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?
PokeSmot75
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.


So you're saying Gundy doesn't target players with enough stars?
PokeSmot75
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.


So you're saying Gundy doesn't target players with enough stars?


Oh I'm sure he targets plenty, he just can't sign enough of them. I'm not really sure why you are arguing here….Gundy probably does more with less than almost any coach in the county. I would just like to see what he could do with better talent, that is all. Recruiting seems to be getting worse, not better, so we will see what happens.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.


So you're saying Gundy doesn't target players with enough stars?


Oh I'm sure he targets plenty, he just can't sign enough of them. I'm not really sure why you are arguing here….Gundy probably does more with less than almost any coach in the county. I would just like to see what he could do with better talent, that is all. Recruiting seems to be getting worse, not better, so we will see what happens.


So he targets enough stars, but either can't or chooses not to sign them? If that's the case, I would guess he can't sign them because they want to go elsewhere, or he doesn't sign them because they don't fit because of scheme or character. So how does he get more stars (higher ranking) to suit you?
PokeSmot75
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.


So you're saying Gundy doesn't target players with enough stars?


Oh I'm sure he targets plenty, he just can't sign enough of them. I'm not really sure why you are arguing here….Gundy probably does more with less than almost any coach in the county. I would just like to see what he could do with better talent, that is all. Recruiting seems to be getting worse, not better, so we will see what happens.


So he targets enough stars, but either can't or chooses not to sign them? If that's the case, I would guess he can't sign them because they want to go elsewhere, and he doesn't sign them because they don't fit because of scheme or character. So how does he get more stars (higher ranking) to suit you?


Hire better recruiters. You are welcome.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.


So you're saying Gundy doesn't target players with enough stars?


Oh I'm sure he targets plenty, he just can't sign enough of them. I'm not really sure why you are arguing here….Gundy probably does more with less than almost any coach in the county. I would just like to see what he could do with better talent, that is all. Recruiting seems to be getting worse, not better, so we will see what happens.


So he targets enough stars, but either can't or chooses not to sign them? If that's the case, I would guess he can't sign them because they want to go elsewhere, and he doesn't sign them because they don't fit because of scheme or character. So how does he get more stars (higher ranking) to suit you?


Hire better recruiters. You are welcome.


Fools gold.
PokeSmot75
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.


So you're saying Gundy doesn't target players with enough stars?


Oh I'm sure he targets plenty, he just can't sign enough of them. I'm not really sure why you are arguing here….Gundy probably does more with less than almost any coach in the county. I would just like to see what he could do with better talent, that is all. Recruiting seems to be getting worse, not better, so we will see what happens.


So he targets enough stars, but either can't or chooses not to sign them? If that's the case, I would guess he can't sign them because they want to go elsewhere, and he doesn't sign them because they don't fit because of scheme or character. So how does he get more stars (higher ranking) to suit you?


Hire better recruiters. You are welcome.


Fools gold.


I don't necessarily like it, but this is the world of big boy football.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Been that way for decades. You been asleep?
Joe Khatib
How long do you want to ignore this user?
PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.


So you're saying Gundy doesn't target players with enough stars?


Oh I'm sure he targets plenty, he just can't sign enough of them. I'm not really sure why you are arguing here….Gundy probably does more with less than almost any coach in the county. I would just like to see what he could do with better talent, that is all. Recruiting seems to be getting worse, not better, so we will see what happens.


So he targets enough stars, but either can't or chooses not to sign them? If that's the case, I would guess he can't sign them because they want to go elsewhere, and he doesn't sign them because they don't fit because of scheme or character. So how does he get more stars (higher ranking) to suit you?


Hire better recruiters. You are welcome.


Fools gold.


I don't necessarily like it, but this is the world of big boy football.
Hey big boy Poke Snot, how many Big XII championships do you have on your mantle, my guess is the same number of SEC championships that Jimbo Fischer has ZERO!
PokeSmot75
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Joe Khatib said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.


So you're saying Gundy doesn't target players with enough stars?


Oh I'm sure he targets plenty, he just can't sign enough of them. I'm not really sure why you are arguing here….Gundy probably does more with less than almost any coach in the county. I would just like to see what he could do with better talent, that is all. Recruiting seems to be getting worse, not better, so we will see what happens.


So he targets enough stars, but either can't or chooses not to sign them? If that's the case, I would guess he can't sign them because they want to go elsewhere, and he doesn't sign them because they don't fit because of scheme or character. So how does he get more stars (higher ranking) to suit you?


Hire better recruiters. You are welcome.


Fools gold.


I don't necessarily like it, but this is the world of big boy football.
Hey big boy Poke Snot, how many Big XII championships do you have on your mantle, my guess is the same number of SEC championships that Jimbo Fischer has ZERO!



Again, your point? If you don't think it takes major talent to consistently win I can't help you. So Texas A&M struggled last year, do you really expect a freshman class to come in and win from day 1? Do you know anything about football?
PokeSmot75
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Been that way for decades. You been asleep?


Lots of snide comments but no substance from you. Whatever dude. I stand by my belief that OSU should be recruiting at a higher level than it has been the last few years.

I saw a recent projection with OSU to finish 9th next season in the Big12. I'm not the only one seeing a lack of talent in the pipeline. That was before the schedule came out and I think 9th is unlikely but you see the point…or actually you probably don't.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
How long do you want to ignore this user?
PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Been that way for decades. You been asleep?


Lots of snide comments but no substance from you. Whatever dude. I stand by my belief that OSU should be recruiting at a higher level than it has been the last few years.

I saw a recent projection with OSU to finish 9th next season in the Big12. I'm not the only one seeing a lack of talent in the pipeline. That was before the schedule came out and I think 9th is unlikely but you see the point…or actually you probably don't.


We know. All you see is stars. Nothing of substance.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
How long do you want to ignore this user?
PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.


So you're saying Gundy doesn't target players with enough stars?


Oh I'm sure he targets plenty, he just can't sign enough of them. I'm not really sure why you are arguing here….Gundy probably does more with less than almost any coach in the county. I would just like to see what he could do with better talent, that is all. Recruiting seems to be getting worse, not better, so we will see what happens.


So he targets enough stars, but either can't or chooses not to sign them? If that's the case, I would guess he can't sign them because they want to go elsewhere, and he doesn't sign them because they don't fit because of scheme or character. So how does he get more stars (higher ranking) to suit you?


Hire better recruiters. You are welcome.


Fools gold.


I don't necessarily like it, but this is the world of big boy football.
Hey big boy Poke Snot, how many Big XII championships do you have on your mantle, my guess is the same number of SEC championships that Jimbo Fischer has ZERO!



Again, your point? If you don't think it takes major talent to consistently win I can't help you. So Texas A&M struggled last year, do you really expect a freshman class to come in and win from day 1? Do you know anything about football?


Yeah, he does. Like he knows aTm has had 5 straight Top-5 classes. How's that working out? Or UTs 15 straight Top-10 classes that have all worked out so well.
PokeSmot75
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.


So you're saying Gundy doesn't target players with enough stars?


Oh I'm sure he targets plenty, he just can't sign enough of them. I'm not really sure why you are arguing here….Gundy probably does more with less than almost any coach in the county. I would just like to see what he could do with better talent, that is all. Recruiting seems to be getting worse, not better, so we will see what happens.


So he targets enough stars, but either can't or chooses not to sign them? If that's the case, I would guess he can't sign them because they want to go elsewhere, and he doesn't sign them because they don't fit because of scheme or character. So how does he get more stars (higher ranking) to suit you?


Hire better recruiters. You are welcome.


Fools gold.


I don't necessarily like it, but this is the world of big boy football.
Hey big boy Poke Snot, how many Big XII championships do you have on your mantle, my guess is the same number of SEC championships that Jimbo Fischer has ZERO!



Again, your point? If you don't think it takes major talent to consistently win I can't help you. So Texas A&M struggled last year, do you really expect a freshman class to come in and win from day 1? Do you know anything about football?


Yeah, he does. Like he knows aTm has had 5 straight Top-5 classes. How's that working out? Or UTs 15 straight Top-10 classes that have all worked out so well.


Lol, you are such a cherry picker. Ask Bama/Georgia/Ohio St how their top classes have done. Works both ways pal.

But I'm not even talking about stars…OSU is getting flips from Air Force and landing kids over offers from Texas St. That doesn't scream high end talent. Pull your head out of the sand…or just wait a year or 2 and you will see all the proof you need. Hope I am wrong.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
How long do you want to ignore this user?
PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.


So you're saying Gundy doesn't target players with enough stars?


Oh I'm sure he targets plenty, he just can't sign enough of them. I'm not really sure why you are arguing here….Gundy probably does more with less than almost any coach in the county. I would just like to see what he could do with better talent, that is all. Recruiting seems to be getting worse, not better, so we will see what happens.


So he targets enough stars, but either can't or chooses not to sign them? If that's the case, I would guess he can't sign them because they want to go elsewhere, and he doesn't sign them because they don't fit because of scheme or character. So how does he get more stars (higher ranking) to suit you?


Hire better recruiters. You are welcome.


Fools gold.


I don't necessarily like it, but this is the world of big boy football.
Hey big boy Poke Snot, how many Big XII championships do you have on your mantle, my guess is the same number of SEC championships that Jimbo Fischer has ZERO!



Again, your point? If you don't think it takes major talent to consistently win I can't help you. So Texas A&M struggled last year, do you really expect a freshman class to come in and win from day 1? Do you know anything about football?


Yeah, he does. Like he knows aTm has had 5 straight Top-5 classes. How's that working out? Or UTs 15 straight Top-10 classes that have all worked out so well.


Lol, you are such a cherry picker. Ask Bama/Georgia/Ohio St how their top classes have done. Works both ways pal.

But I'm not even talking about stars…OSU is getting flips from Air Force and landing kids over offers from Texas St. That doesn't scream high end talent. Pull your head out of the sand…or just wait a year or 2 and you will see all the proof you need. Hope I am wrong.



You are talking about stars. You disparaged our latest class based on what? I'll answer for you - stars. As I originally stated, to disparage the most recent class you are either looking at stars, or a crystal ball.
PokeSmot75
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! I have always felt encouraged about Flores as well as many other 3-star recruits. I have also grown weary of the whole 'stars' debate.... ie.... do stars matter or do stars not matter. The reality is both schools of thought have merit and yes, there are #'s that support both sides of the debate.
Personally, I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
Interesting, developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships! So we should consider REPLACING ROB GLASS, BRILLIANT!!! Texas A&M finished with the number one recruiting class in country and had finished in the top 15 or 20 three of the previous four years prior to 2022 and proceeded to drop a 5-7 record and never made it to a bowl and now almost half of that Number 1 class of 27 or 28 players is now in the portal!!!


What's your point? He said "What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships"…I think most without orange colored glasses would agree.

More/better talent is needed, no doubt about that. Will OSU sign a top 10 class loaded with 4 and 5 stars, no way…but with the sustained success we've seen over the last decade and coming off a season with wins over OU, UT, and Notre Dame there is no excuse for the type of class that they just brought in.




"No excuse for the type of class that they just brought in?" That's either someone only focused on stars, or has a crystal ball. Which is it, Karnak?


Show me evidence of a team that has recruiting rankings in the 50s that is competing for championships on a regular basis. And it's Sir Carnac to you.


So you're saying Gundy doesn't target players with enough stars?


Oh I'm sure he targets plenty, he just can't sign enough of them. I'm not really sure why you are arguing here….Gundy probably does more with less than almost any coach in the county. I would just like to see what he could do with better talent, that is all. Recruiting seems to be getting worse, not better, so we will see what happens.


So he targets enough stars, but either can't or chooses not to sign them? If that's the case, I would guess he can't sign them because they want to go elsewhere, and he doesn't sign them because they don't fit because of scheme or character. So how does he get more stars (higher ranking) to suit you?


Hire better recruiters. You are welcome.


Fools gold.


I don't necessarily like it, but this is the world of big boy football.
Hey big boy Poke Snot, how many Big XII championships do you have on your mantle, my guess is the same number of SEC championships that Jimbo Fischer has ZERO!



Again, your point? If you don't think it takes major talent to consistently win I can't help you. So Texas A&M struggled last year, do you really expect a freshman class to come in and win from day 1? Do you know anything about football?


Yeah, he does. Like he knows aTm has had 5 straight Top-5 classes. How's that working out? Or UTs 15 straight Top-10 classes that have all worked out so well.


Lol, you are such a cherry picker. Ask Bama/Georgia/Ohio St how their top classes have done. Works both ways pal.

But I'm not even talking about stars…OSU is getting flips from Air Force and landing kids over offers from Texas St. That doesn't scream high end talent. Pull your head out of the sand…or just wait a year or 2 and you will see all the proof you need. Hope I am wrong.



You are talking about stars. You disparaged our latest class based on what? I'll answer for you - stars. As I originally stated, to disparage the most recent class you are either looking at stars, or a crystal ball.


I don't need you to answer for me.

Vailahi- offers from BYU, Idaho St, Nevada, Southern Utah

Andrews- offers from Dartmouth, Drake, Navy

Esonwune- offers from Tulsa, Prairie View, UNLV

Pope- offers from Air Force, Columbia, Lafayette, Tulsa

Stanaland- offers from Abilene Christian, Louisiana Tech, Navy, New Mexico St.

Lolohea- offers from Louisiana-Monroe, North Texas, San Diego State, SMU, Texas Tech

Utu-offer from Incarnate Word

Wray- offers from Austin Peay, East Tennessee State, Eastern Illinois, Florida International, Mercer, Presbyterian

Lester- offers from Kansas State, Tulane, Tulsa

Mejia- offers from Virginia, Arkansas State, Eastern Michigan, Louisiana-Monroe, Navy, New Mexico St, South Dakota, Tulane, Tulsa, USF

Get the picture? Sure some of these guys may turn out fine but this isn't the kind of talent that wins championships.
Joe Khatib
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Who has the better won/loss record the last ten years in the Big XII Texas that finishes in the top 10 to 15 in the recruiting numbers put out by a bunch of guys on their computer who never coached or probably played the game or OSU that finishes in the Thirties or so in the ratings game or con game I should say! In the last fifteen years OSU and Texas have won exactly ONE BIG XII Championship, one each!!! DO YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING THESE RECRUITING GURUS TELL YOU!!!! Plus it appears 50% of recruiting is going towards the portal as long as the system remains as is and the high school recruits will be diminished somewhat! Plus, neither you nor I know what any of these players are or aren't until they get here and strap on the pads and get after it on the field where it COUNTS!
PokeSmot75
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Joe Khatib said:

Who has the better won/loss record the last ten years in the Big XII Texas that finishes in the top 10 to 15 in the recruiting numbers put out by a bunch of guys on their computer who never coached or probably played the game or OSU that finishes in the Thirties or so in the ratings game or con game I should say! In the last fifteen years OSU and Texas have won exactly ONE BIG XII Championship, one each!!! DO YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING THESE RECRUITING GURUS TELL YOU!!!! Plus it appears 50% of recruiting is going towards the portal as long as the system remains as is and the high school recruits will be diminished somewhat!


You lost me after perhaps the longest, most rambling first sentence in history.
Joe Khatib
How long do you want to ignore this user?
PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

Who has the better won/loss record the last ten years in the Big XII Texas that finishes in the top 10 to 15 in the recruiting numbers put out by a bunch of guys on their computer who never coached or probably played the game or OSU that finishes in the Thirties or so in the ratings game or con game I should say! In the last fifteen years OSU and Texas have won exactly ONE BIG XII Championship, one each!!! DO YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING THESE RECRUITING GURUS TELL YOU!!!! Plus it appears 50% of recruiting is going towards the portal as long as the system remains as is and the high school recruits will be diminished somewhat!


You lost me after perhaps the longest, most rambling first sentence in history.
Joe Khatib
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Joe Khatib said:

PokeSmot75 said:

Joe Khatib said:

Who has the better won/loss record the last ten years in the Big XII Texas that finishes in the top 10 to 15 in the recruiting numbers put out by a bunch of guys on their computer who never coached or probably played the game or OSU that finishes in the Thirties or so in the ratings game or con game I should say! In the last fifteen years OSU and Texas have won exactly ONE BIG XII Championship, one each!!! DO YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING THESE RECRUITING GURUS TELL YOU!!!! Plus it appears 50% of recruiting is going towards the portal as long as the system remains as is and the high school recruits will be diminished somewhat!


You lost me after perhaps the longest, most rambling first sentence in history.

Joe Khatib
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Nice job at DEFLECTION , the oldest game in the book Cowboy Snot!!! LOLOL
PokeSmot75
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Joe Khatib said:

Nice job at DEFLECTION , the oldest game in the book Cowboy Snot!!! LOLOL


Are you like 13 years old?

Again you are cherry picking. Try to see if you can find the change:

Who has the better won/loss record the last ten years in the Big XII OU that finishes in the top 10 to 15 in the recruiting numbers put out by a bunch of guys on their computer who never coached or probably played the game or OSU that finishes in the Thirties or so in the ratings game or con game I should say!
CanadianCowboy
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Alright guys....let's knock off the cute name-calling and keep on track for healthy discussion & debate. Thanks & Go Pokes!
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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Its the EXACT same concept as relying on stars to determine the quality of a recruit. You're relying on someone else's evaluation of talent instead of our coaches.

I have no issue with anyone that wants the team to be better, who doesn't? It's totally fair to say something like - "A year after we were 1 inch short and/or a healthy RB shy of a B12 Championship and CFP appearance, the 2022 Cowboys playing with a ton of injuries and inexperience underperformed because of below average coaching and/or below average recruiting in the previous one or two cycles. If the issue is mostly below average recruiting, let's hope the current class turns out better than the collective "stars" might indicate."

That would be a fair take instead of just declaring this class a disaster.
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