Handicapping the Quarterback Situation as Oklahoma State's Season Opener Nears

Seems to me "Gundy's naming when it's best for team" has another dimension or two to it that we've watched in part for many years. That is the earned "credit for seniority" that Gundy grants, even when it appears obvious to a lot of fans someone has better skills. Way back, it was Thomas over Sanders, a few year's back, the Utah(?) QB over Weeden. Last year, the older Johnson WR over the younger Stephon Johnson (who transferred perhaps somewhat as a result). So to me, Bowman has that earned, sr. edge going and has to lose his starting opportunity. And Gundy has to be very mindful/aware of a couple more factors due to the portal implications. You want senior, talented guys to transfer in in the future? Better show some likelihood there's a track record of it working for others. That's also a plus for Bowman. But in the case of Rangel, the portal has a double edged sword component too. If it's not a clear, open competition, Rangel can soon go out! Especially looking backwards at the freshman QB Flores on his heels.

If it's true it's that close of a race and they are all playing wel then you give the keys to Rangel. Has 4 years to start and we would be going into the 24 ready to rock and roll.

Give it to Rangel. It's the wise decision. Bowman's a 1 year rental, to what end? Rangel's not going to learn by riding the pine. This is a re-rack season. Use it for good. Starting Bowman this year automatically sets up the same can't-decide repeat of this whole thing next year. Except then it would be Rangel-Gundy-Flores tie and we'll go through this all again.

I believe it's close and that all are playing good in practice. But I don't believe Rangel has dramatically improved since the KU game to the point that exceeds where a 6th year Alan Bowman is.

I think Bowman starts plays most of the year. If he gets hurt Rangel gets some time. And next year it's Zane Flores

Rangel is way better than in the KU game last year. He has the strongest arm of all of the QB's.
After a year Flores may catch him....

Robert is being coy. Bowman is QB1. Rangel is QB2. IMO Flores is QB3.

RA has said Bowman has an arm stronger than Spencer. Interesting if you're correct Rangel has a better arm. Bowman passed for 600+ yards against Houston as a frosh. So you'd think four years later his arm is even better.

Gumby is the new California cowboy. I think you're offended by people simply having opinions. You take the fun out of simple conversation.it's a forum dude. Nobody goes to practice but that doesn't mean they can't have a take on quarter back play

Pokes4158 said:

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Gumby is the new California cowboy. I think you're offended by people simply having opinions. You take the fun out of simple conversation.it's a forum dude. Nobody goes to practice but that doesn't mean they can't have a take on quarter back play

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You're right, it is a forum and I'm not offended by opinions - just curious how people form serious opinions without meaningful data. I suppose I could form an opinion about quantum mechanics, but I doubt anyone would take me serious.

Reference my signature below.

If you were a philosopher you wouldn't waste time wondering why people form opinions without watching practice Confucius. They read. They see things on social media. Sports clips of practice. Everyone has something.

Here's what I know (which is way less than what I don't know)….

Bowman has been successful and won games at times in the distant past
Rangel and Gundy have struggled in game situations, for whatever reasons

Personally, I haven't seen…..

Bowman throw a pass in 3 years
Bowman run a single competitive play in our offense
Rangel or Gundy run the offense behind a competent OL
Rangel or Gundy operate the offense with anything other than a terrible run game

Thus, I don't have an opinion, but I do have a guess. I'd guess Bowman will start simply based on experience.

And Gumby that "more experienced" was part of my original response and thinking at the top, but aided by the seeming fact Gundy goes out of his way to give more senior players a playing edge/opportunity. And that's not a criticism of coach. It's a nice thing to do and perhaps pays off long term in both player relationships and wins. I do trust Gundy's decisions as the proof has been shown in the pudding for a dozen years now. And it certainly makes common sense more mature players should have a better impact on the field. We will likely see some of that impact when we play BYU with their multiple "have already completed a mission" linemen.

Certainly Gundy highly values experience. I'm sure it will play a key role in his decision.

Orangeheart72 said:

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We will likely see some of that impact when we play BYU with their multiple "have already completed a mission" linemen.

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but that's mostly myth, right? Our own Caleb Etienne starts for them at RT.

True that they are all older and experienced, but mostly because from center over to RT they are all transfers from Utah, Utah St, OSU. The LT is a 5-star RS-SO from Oregon.


https://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts/depth-chart/brigham-young/90222

That would be fair. Bowman has experience and I personally think he will start. If he can't outright beat rangel or Gundy tho I think we need to start the future guy. I would hope it's all smoke and bowman is the clear vet and right choice for the job.

If by "this is just a rerack year so play Rangel" you think the Cowboys are somewhat in a throw it away, rebuild for next year situation, I'd disagree. We have better, deeper more mature and HEALTHY lines on both sides of the ball than normal (and especially on the OL compared to recent years) a QB who (may prevail perhaps) with maturity and a strong desire/fire to still get an NFL shot, a full deep compliment of talented, tall receivers, reasonable talent and depth at running back, three mature, talented linebackers who may all be gone after this year along with an NFL worthy safety who could hear NIL offers that are hard to ignore/match. To me, this could be one of those unique, Gundy surprise years. I can't imagine anyone viewing this as a rebuild year and/or thinking let's build towards '24.

Orangeheart72 said:

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If by "this is just a rerack year so play Rangel" you think the Cowboys are somewhat in a throw it away, rebuild for next year situation, I'd disagree. We have better, deeper more mature and HEALTHY lines on both sides of the ball than normal (and especially on the OL compared to recent years) a QB who (may prevail perhaps) with maturity and a strong desire/fire to still get an NFL shot, a full deep compliment of talented, tall receivers, reasonable talent and depth at running back, three mature, talented linebackers who may all be gone after this year along with an NFL worthy safety who could hear NIL offers that are hard to ignore/match. To me, this could be one of those unique, Gundy surprise years. I can't imagine anyone viewing this as a rebuild year and/or thinking let's build towards '24.

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I agree, this is a do-or-die year with all the pieces align (5-yr senior OLine, deep DLine, talent and depth at almost every position), we just need for a few bounces to go our way to have an unbelievable outstanding season.

This person is Crazed Stallion Jr.

Why is no one mentioning Gunnar Gundy? He has been mentioned as the only QB that can make some plays with his legs.

Good stuff, it is a good problem to have choices. I am confident the right person will be under center. The speculation is almost over.

I think Gunnar's got a tough road ahead of him. He almost has to be head and shoulders above everyone to get the chance to show his ability. I thought it strange he went to play for HCMG. You can tell Gundy is reluctant to talk about Gunnar. It might be he's even more reluctant to play him. Remember the HC we had who played his RB son ahead of better talent or at least much healthier talent (Simmons). You just about never heard the end of that deal.
And it's obviously possible both Bowman and Rangel are ahead of him overall.

Orangeheart72 said:

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I think Gunnar's got a tough road ahead of him. He almost has to be head and shoulders above everyone to get the chance to show his ability. I thought it strange he went to play for HCMG. You can tell Gundy is reluctant to talk about Gunnar. It might be he's even more reluctant to play him. Remember the HC we had who played his RB son ahead of better talent or at least much healthier talent (Simmons). You just about never heard the end of that deal.
And it's obviously possible both Bowman and Rangel are ahead of him overall.

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That is not true. Simmons was the best running back on the team, until he got hurt. Then he almost never got in.

IMO, Gunnar will play this season. Is he even on scholarship? (perception)

IMO, Gunnar was a better leader of the team last year, when he got in (although neither were ready).

Gunnar could end up being a really good QB (and so could Rangel) in another year or two... I would not want to have to depend on either to carry us this season.

Based on Roberts posts and the delay in naming Qb I think Rangel has improved enough to make Gundy reconsider his Qb room now and in the future. Bowman didn't come here to sit so coaches must have thought he had real good chance to start. After this year, Flores will only be 1 year eligibility behind Rangel. In this day and age Flores won't sit 3 years for the starting job.

A lot of folks thought the kid from Louisiana behind him had more moves and talent. Regardless, Simmons son was supposedly injured and still played when not fully healthy, at least allegedly. But my point was, the coaches son is under a microscope. The stories, allegations and nepotism rumors fly whether you think they were right, wrong or otherwise. And they likely affect most coaches/fathers at least somewhat unless you have a clear difference maker (Prime's son).

Orangeheart72 said:

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A lot of folks thought the kid from Louisiana behind him had more moves and talent. Regardless, Simmons son was supposedly injured and still played when not fully healthy, at least allegedly. But my point was, the coaches son is under a microscope. The stories, allegations and nepotism rumors fly whether you think they were right, wrong or otherwise. And they likely affect most coaches/fathers at least somewhat unless you have a clear difference maker (Prime's son).

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sure there are petty folks out there that look for any excuse to bash on our program.

Sean and Scott played with no questions asked. Smith's kid wrestled. Several other of our coaches kids played or are playing. Do you think for one minute that Holiday would not have been playing on Dad's baseball team?

If Gunnar is not playing more minutes, then it is because of a GROUP decision, not simply the decision of the HC.

Fobbs was really good, but he was also really small 5-7 and only 177 lbs. Simmons was a big back.

Simmons was only 63 yards short of a 1,000 yard season when he blew out his knee. It's not like he was chopped liver. And the season after Simmons recovered from his injury, we played Kevin Brown and Reggie White a lot.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/oklahoma-state/1999.html

NJAggie said:

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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Pokes4158 said:

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Gumby is the new California cowboy. I think you're offended by people simply having opinions. You take the fun out of simple conversation.it's a forum dude. Nobody goes to practice but that doesn't mean they can't have a take on quarter back play

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You're right, it is a forum and I'm not offended by opinions - just curious how people form serious opinions without meaningful data. I suppose I could form an opinion about quantum mechanics, but I doubt anyone would take me serious.

Reference my signature below.

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I'm always mystified by all these guys that know more and self proclaim to have greater skill at talent evaluation than Mike Gundy.

Having opinions is one thing, but to declare an opinion that you know more and would make better decisions than a guy that will go in a lot of HoF's is a bit presumptuous.

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A bit presumptuous? I guess you're more generous than I.

RP, congrats for pulling up Jamal Fobbs name! I couldn't remember it until you put it down. I guess we'll agree to disagree on this. I just think a QB spot is different and the debate on depth at that position doesn't compare to baseball or wrestling IMO. But we'll see what comes of it on the field the next couple years. Understand I like Gunnar, just think it's a tough gig for him at OSU.

disagree all you want, I actually looked it up.

all 4 years.

besides, Gunnar hasn't played when he "shouldn't have", so your point is moot so far.

If Gunnar wins the starting role, and then plays with a cast on his leg over the fan appointed Nebraska phenom, then you might have a point.