Story Poster
Photo by Cleveland 19

Editorial: Let NIL and Pokes with a Purpose Go Stagnant then Prepare to Suffer

September 28, 2023
12,696

The other day I had Oklahoma State associate athletic director and director of NIL Barry Hinson on my radio porgram out of Triple Play Sports Radio in Stillwater. Understand that as a member of the Oklahoma State Cowboys Radio Network and an insider to the football program that has been a friend with Cowboys football head coach Mike Gundy since he was in high school that I’ve been a marked man. Oklahoma State fans are spoiled. The younger ones, ages 12-to-30 something, are extremely spoiled as they have never known anything other than winning seasons and bowl games at the end of each season. Six of those have been New Year’s Six games since 2000. Older fans seem to have forgot the depressing seasons of the late 80s and 90s. Even older fans should remember that the program was only occasionally strong leading up to Pat Jones as head coach in 1984 and the advent of Thurman Thomas, Barry Sanders, Mike Gundy (as quarterback), Leslie O’Neal, Mark Moore, and Hart Lee Dykes. 

Many of Oklahoma State’s successful football seasons before the Les Miles and Mike Gundy eras beginning in the 2000s were because of cheating and were followed by NCAA probations. It’s a fact. Waht is interesting now is that all of those probations and what Oklahoma State did to earn the punishment from the NCAA is now legal.

“NIL, name, image, and likeness is what I’m involved with,” Hinson told me. “We had a gathering last night (Sept. 26) of about 125 of our athletes and representatives of businesses. It was kind of like a speed dating where athletes and business people could get to know each other and find out if they could help each other out.”

© BRYAN TERRY/THE OKLAHOMAN / USA TODAY NETWORK
Softball has been awesome in the NIL era.

Hinson explained further that the Cowgirls softball team is working to help the local cable company. That same team has a deal with the Seth Wadley car dealerships in Perry and has done big work promoting that business. The women’s basketball team has a deal with Aspen Coffee that has been profitable. A multitude of athletes in all sports, especially football and basketball, have deals with business people. I’m paying quarterback Alan Bowman for an exclusive NIL Journal each week. I can tell you that he gets a salary and a 10 percent of all new subscriptions. He is doing well. NIL works and it is athletes being paid for name-image-and-likeness.

Hinson has helped put together, along with the OSU NIL Brand Squad, the shirjeys, a t-shirt replica jersey for every Oklahoma State athlete. Soon, every Oklahoma State athlete will have their own trading card. Those have been done professionally with Panini, the leading trading car company in the United States.

Pokes with a Purpose
The Oklahoma State collective.

“Then we have Pokes wth a Purpose, the collective,” Hinson said. “We have to support Pokes with a Purpose and I tell our booster and supporter that we have to keep them going.”

Hinson is so right. Pokes with a Purpose falls under NIL with the NCAA, but it’s different.

Pokes with a Purpose is a collective, similar to what every school has like the 12th Man at Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Kansas, West Virginia, you name a school and they have a collective or what back in the old days was called a slush fund. These collectives are out of the darkness and into the wide open. Many, like Oklahoma State’s Pokes with a Purpose are tied to businesses and/or charitable entities. Athletes do appearances, but not all and these collectives are responsible for payments made across the board on teams. Did you know every Cowboy basketball player drives a new vehicle? Every Oklahoma State football player gets a stipend, a check? 

If you have any extra money and want to use it to support Oklahoma State athletics, all teams, but certainly football then give to Pokes with a Purpose. There will be a QR code on the Boone Pickens Stadium jumbo tron at the Kansas State game on Oct. 6 and all remaining home football games. I will be aiming my phone at that code for a $100 gift. If 50,000 people would do the same over the rest of the football season that adds up to $5 million and that would fund Pokes with a Purpose for this next school year and beyond. 

Bruce Waterfield/OSU Athletics
Cowboys Nathan Latu rushes Rashada in the win at Arizona State.

When you hear stories like the one about current Arizona State quarterback Jaden Rashada being offered a $13.85 million NIL deal at Florida, I call BS to that. Now, a million? maybe. Honestly, I think most schools have around $3-5 million as total budgets in their collectives. There maybe some like Texas, Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama, LSU that go beyond that number. Stay in the $3-5 million range and I believe you can compete favorably.

Now, for those of you that bitch and moan about not getting enough four and five-star recruits in football or in any sport, here is your chance to step up. As the saying goes, money talks and BS walks. 

I can’t give millions, but I can give along with my season tickets in two different sports and my personal NIL deal with this website. It’s time to sit down and decide what you can do. Because for the immediate future if enough people join you and me in this age where what was once illegal is now not only legal, but necessary for success; then Oklahoma State will have that success. If not, when you are all of a sudden frustrated with on the field and on the court results, then look in the mirror. 

Discussion from...

Editorial: Let NIL and Pokes with a Purpose Go Stagnant then Prepare to Suffer

12,035 Views | 61 Replies | Last: 6 mo ago by NJAggie
Pokes4158
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This ladies and gentlemen is what we call a COPOUT.
CowboyKip
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This is now "pay for play". You get the players that you can afford. This is now minor league sports.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Pokes4158 said:

This ladies and gentlemen is what we call a COPOUT.


You might not like NIL. You might not believe in NIL. But this is certainly not a cop out. If you're not competitive with NIL$$, you won't attract the athletes to be competitive on the field.

Open your eyes. Quit whining.
True wisdom is knowing what you don't know.
- Confucius
Pokes4158
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I totally love nil. I think you aren't understanding why I said that. All good tho
Joe Khatib
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It is the reality now and yesI agree with many that it needs to be REGULATED VIA LEGISLATION WITH GUARD RAILS! I GAVE $5,000 to Pokes with a Purpose back in the Summer of 2022 because I had the extra available funds and plan on giving $1,000, it is what I can afford this year, in the next month! Welcome to the brave new world, and you are so right Gumby it is the reality we live in today!!!
PaloDuroPoke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
That time of year again. It's all the fans fault. I've given and will continue to support what I can but IF THE PRODUCT ON THE FIELD doesn't improve in a hurry, things are going to get much harder. That South Alabama game was packed,the campus was electric, the performance was horrible. Fans are bought in and spend 1000s every home game. We are now going on a year of poor performance on the field. The fans are doing their part and will continue but if the product doesn't get significantly better, the NIL and collective will be the least of our worries. I'm giving, it's time to put a product out there worth the donation. Quit blaming the fans for poor recruiting and start game planning and coaching. Kids, you want paid, do your job. I'd love for every fan to do more but more needs to happen on the field. It goes hand in hand.
MidTownPoke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
NIL is important. But what's more important is having a head coach who cares about doing his job and not retaining lousy coaches. Time for fresh blood.
missouripoke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sadly the expectations of fans is getting a little ridiculous. People give a lot of money and now everyone is begging for more. The kids were getting enough before, this has become a joke.
OctaviusRex
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Robert you say this, but did Gundy not tell the donors NIL is not that important and that they should focus their money more on facilities than NIL?

Maybe if the head coach wouldn't ***** and moan about NIL, and would embrace it, the fans might follow suit?
Dantana
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This is actually a great idea. Clemson way back started IPTAY which meant - I will pay $10 a year.

RodeoPoke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I'd be fine with going down to the D1-AA level. I prefer more amature sports over this semi-pro league.

I'll give it up completely before I engage in this arms race.

(FWIW - I did buy a 3-game mini pack to help do my part, and likely won't be able to attend any of the games).

Zen
How long do you want to ignore this user?
NCAA let this spiral out of control and now college sports is just insane with play for pay. NCAA has to set some limits and especially fix the transfer portal rules. The fans are now expected to keep programs competitive. Absurd, but a reflection of what is going on in the world. Every institution is in flux.
LS1Z28
How long do you want to ignore this user?
"As the saying goes, money talks and BS walks."

This is very true. Coach Gundy makes a top 15 salary, and we will eventually have to tell him to walk if he doesn't work harder at recruiting and building relationships with players.

I don't think the money is the problem. From what I've heard we have multiple football players making six figures and Spencer Sanders was making about $400K before he left.

Coach Boynton just signed a top 10 class with the same NIL collective as Coach Gundy. There's no reason why our football program shouldn't be signing top 25 classes.

The fans have given to NIL and sold out BPS. The outcome of this season isn't on them, it's on the coaches.
RodeoPoke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LS1Z28 said:

"As the saying goes, money talks and BS walks."


The fans have given to NIL and sold out BPS. The outcome of this season isn't on them, it's on the coaches.
actually, the outcome is on the players that left (supposedly because of NIL) - 13 starters or significant contributors.

LS1Z28
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RodeoPoke said:

LS1Z28 said:

"As the saying goes, money talks and BS walks."


The fans have given to NIL and sold out BPS. The outcome of this season isn't on them, it's on the coaches.
actually, the outcome is on the players that left (supposedly because of NIL) - 13 starters or significant contributors.


It's up to the coaches to build relationships with players to keep them from leaving after they reach campus. Coach Gundy needs to get better at this. I can't tell you how many times I've heard him refer to players by their numbers because he doesn't even seem to know their names.

JBK left a couple years ago due to NIL, and Muhammad did this past year. I think that most of the other players we've lost to the transfer portal left for other reasons.
RodeoPoke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LS1Z28 said:

RodeoPoke said:

LS1Z28 said:

"As the saying goes, money talks and BS walks."


The fans have given to NIL and sold out BPS. The outcome of this season isn't on them, it's on the coaches.
actually, the outcome is on the players that left (supposedly because of NIL) - 13 starters or significant contributors.


It's up to the coaches to build relationships with players to keep them from leaving after they reach campus. Coach Gundy needs to get better at this. I can't tell you how many times I've heard him refer to players by their numbers because he doesn't even seem to know their names.

JBK left a couple years ago due to NIL, and Muhammad did this past year. I think that most of the other players we've lost to the transfer portal left for other reasons.
yeah, but that is all rumor and nonsense. It is your opinion that he uses their numbers because he does not know their names... often times he actually uses their nick names, because he know them that well. This year, well hell, he already said in the Fall that there were 39 new players and he was still learning their names.

They left for NIL, bank on it - including Sanders. We have a Safety at ND, a CB at Washington, our LB at USC, a DE at OU, a LT at BYU, a RB at BU, a WR at Wisconsin, a WR at TCU -- but they didn't go for money.... (wink, wink)

There may have been other reasons too, Daniels already alluded to many of the defenders quitting on the team last year after the QB got hurt. (he said that crap won't happen this year)


LS1Z28
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RodeoPoke said:


They left for NIL, bank on it - including Sanders. We have a Safety at ND, a CB at Washington, our LB at USC, a DE at OU, a LT at BYU, a RB at BU, a WR at Wisconsin, a WR at TCU -- but they didn't go for money.... (wink, wink)


  • Muhammad left for money.
  • Kopenski left because he didn't feel like he fit into the new system.
  • Braylin Presley left because he didn't feel like he was getting enough touches.
  • Green left because he was upset we brought Stribling in to compete with him.
  • JPR left because he wanted to start, and he knew that wasn't going to happen with Brennan Presley.
  • Ford left because he was upset with the coaches over how they handled his injury.
  • Several players left to find playing time.

This is what I've heard. NIL plays a part, but I think most of the players left for other reasons. I highly doubt that Sanders is making more than $400K at Ole Miss to be a backup. It's possible though.
RodeoPoke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LS1Z28 said:

RodeoPoke said:


They left for NIL, bank on it - including Sanders. We have a Safety at ND, a CB at Washington, our LB at USC, a DE at OU, a LT at BYU, a RB at BU, a WR at Wisconsin, a WR at TCU -- but they didn't go for money.... (wink, wink)


  • Muhammad left for money.
  • Kopenski left because he didn't feel like he fit into the new system.
  • Braylin Presley left because he didn't feel like he was getting enough touches.
  • Green left because he was upset we brought Stribling in to compete with him.
  • JPR left because he wanted to start, and he knew that wasn't going to happen with Brennan Presley.
  • Ford left because he was upset with the coaches over how they handled his injury.
  • Several players left to find playing time.

This is what I've heard. NIL plays a part, but I think most of the players left for other reasons. I highly doubt that Sanders is making more than $400K at Ole Miss to be a backup. It's possible though.

of that list I only referenced Muhammad, Green, JPR and Ford, and you know at least 3 of those got more money.

we lost 13 starters or significant players, who were NOT "trying to find playing time".

Sanders, Cobb, Muhammad, Harper, Tuihalamaka, Stephon Johnson, Etienne, Richardson, etc.

Sure some of those might be concerned about more PT, but they were significant contributors, and they did not leave because Gundy doesn't know their names, or other bullcrap being tossed about.

LS1Z28
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RodeoPoke said:


of that list I only referenced Muhammad, Green, JPR and Ford, and you know at least 3 of those got more money.

we lost 13 starters or significant players, who were NOT "trying to find playing time".

Sanders, Cobb, Muhammad, Harper, Tuihalamaka, Stephon Johnson, Etienne, Richardson, etc.

Sure some of those might be concerned about more PT, but they were significant contributors, and they did not leave because Gundy doesn't know their names, or other bullcrap being tossed about.


I'm just going off of what I've heard Robert say on his radio show, and Muhammad is the only player I've heard him say left specifically due to money. All of this is conjecture anyways. No one but the athletes really know why they left.

All I really know is that Coach Boynton's last recruiting class was ranked 10th, and Coach Gundy's last class was ranked 55th. They both use the same NIL collective. This isn't about money, it's about the coaches doing the recruiting.

I never really minded Coach Gundy's gruff, old-school approach before the transfer portal and NIL, but it feels like it's hurting us now in our efforts to bring talent to campus and retain it. He's going to have to evolve if he wants to continue to be successful here.
RodeoPoke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LS1Z28 said:



I'm just going off of what I've heard Robert say on his radio show, and Muhammad is the only player I've heard him say left specifically due to money. All of this is conjecture anyways. No one but the athletes really know why they left.

All I really know is that Coach Boynton's last recruiting class was ranked 10th, and Coach Gundy's last class was ranked 55th. They both use the same NIL collective. This isn't about money, it's about the coaches doing the recruiting.

I never really minded Coach Gundy's gruff, old-school approach before the transfer portal and NIL, but it feels like it's hurting us now in our efforts to bring talent to campus and retain it. He's going to have to evolve if he wants to continue to be successful here.

Bleh... Boynton's last "ranked class" was a bust, except for Cade Cunningham, and every one of them left in the Portal, probably because they "loved Coach Mike" and would play for him forever!!

Even Marcus Smart stayed an extra year under Ford, but not kids under Coach Mike, the wunder kid.

Gundy goes to post season with his classes, Boynton does not. You can have your bogus media rankings.

LS1Z28
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RodeoPoke said:


Bleh... Boynton's last "ranked class" was a bust, except for Cade Cunningham, and every one of them left in the Portal, probably because they "loved Coach Mike" and would play for him forever!!

Even Marcus Smart stayed an extra year under Ford, but not kids under Coach Mike, the wunder kid.

Gundy goes to post season with his classes, Boynton does not. You can have your bogus media rankings.


Coach Gundy is a future college football hall of famer. Coach Boynton may not be here much longer if he doesn't start having success. Recruiting ability doesn't matter that much if you can't optimize the talent once you get it to campus.

The point I was trying to make is that you can't blame our poor football recruiting on NIL when basketball is tearing things up in recruiting.

I hope we're able to make a bowl game this year. That's not going to happen unless we start playing at a higher level.
RodeoPoke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LS1Z28 said:



The point I was trying to make is that you can't blame our poor football recruiting on NIL when basketball is tearing things up in recruiting.



yeah, I get it.... all those lowly recruits that we had, that are now starting at blue-blood and other P5 teams sure were over rated.

stop looking at recruiting rankings.
LS1Z28
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RodeoPoke said:

LS1Z28 said:



The point I was trying to make is that you can't blame our poor football recruiting on NIL when basketball is tearing things up in recruiting.



yeah, I get it.... all those lowly recruits that we had, that are now starting at blue-blood and other P5 teams sure were over rated.

stop looking at recruiting rankings.
Two notes about recruiting rankings:
1. There has never been a team in the modern era win a national championship without signing a top 10 class in the four years prior. We'll never go further than we have in the past if we don't start caring more about the level of raw talent we bring to campus.
2. I once did a study of the first 10 recruiting classes Coach Gundy signed. The 4-star players got drafted at more than 5X the rate of the 3 and 2 star players.

Recruiting rankings don't mean everything, but they matter more than some think. IMO, they matter more on an aggregate level than an individual level though.
RodeoPoke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LS1Z28 said:



Two notes about recruiting rankings:
1. There has never been a team in the modern era win a national championship without signing a top 10 class in the four years prior. We'll never go further than we have in the past if we don't start caring more about the level of raw talent we bring to campus.
2. I once did a study of the first 10 recruiting classes Coach Gundy signed. The 4-star players got drafted at more than 5X the rate of the 3 and 2 star players.

Recruiting rankings don't mean everything, but they matter more than some think. IMO, they matter more on an aggregate level than an individual level though.
all anecdotal.

some people use statistics like a drunkard uses a lamppost, for support instead of illumination.

lies, damned lies, and statistics....
LS1Z28
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RodeoPoke said:


all anecdotal.

some people use statistics like a drunkard uses a lamppost, for support instead of illumination.

lies, damned lies, and statistics....
Haha, now you're just being cantankerous.

You can believe what you want to believe, but I think there's a significant correlation between Georgia winning back to back national championships and the fact that they've signed several straight top 5 classes.
Joe Khatib
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LS1Z28 said:

RodeoPoke said:

LS1Z28 said:



The point I was trying to make is that you can't blame our poor football recruiting on NIL when basketball is tearing things up in recruiting.



yeah, I get it.... all those lowly recruits that we had, that are now starting at blue-blood and other P5 teams sure were over rated.

stop looking at recruiting rankings.
Two notes about recruiting rankings:
1. There has never been a team in the modern era win a national championship without signing a top 10 class in the four years prior. We'll never go further than we have in the past if we don't start caring more about the level of raw talent we bring to campus.
2. I once did a study of the first 10 recruiting classes Coach Gundy signed. The 4-star players got drafted at more than 5X the rate of the 3 and 2 star players.

Recruiting rankings don't mean everything, but they matter more than some think. IMO, they matter more on an aggregate level than an individual level though.
Can you share that study, number 2, on your list above? It would be interesting to see!!! Also, I WISH we would start seeing some results, like NCAA Tourney participation and wins from Boyntons highly ranked recruiting classes!!!
LS1Z28
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Joe Khatib said:


Can you share that study, number 2, on your list above? It would be interesting to see!!! Also, I WISH we would start seeing some results, like NCAA Tourney participation and wins from Boyntons highly ranked recruiting classes!!!
Let me do some digging to see if I can find it. I posted it on the Orangepower board a few years ago, but I can't access it now that the board has been taken down. Hopefully I still have it saved to my hard drive.
Jim4OSU
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I haven't seen much said about the Athletic Director in these comments. I hope he is very busy doing his part in solving the internal problems of the football department. I think he needs to be talking to experts in the football industry and ask them to evaluate everything in our football department. He definitely needs to go outside of OSU to receive a thorough evaluation. Football at OSU cannot exist much longer if it stays on the same path, we have been on for a number of years. We have had some great seasons but have not been able to build on them.
Many of the problems do point to the head coach. We are depending on the AD!
LS1Z28
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Joe Khatib said:


Can you share that study, number 2, on your list above? It would be interesting to see!!! Also, I WISH we would start seeing some results, like NCAA Tourney participation and wins from Boyntons highly ranked recruiting classes!!!
Recruiting class breakdown by year:
2005: (1) 4-star, (14) 3-star, (6) 2-star
2006: (5) 4-star, (21) 3-star, (1) 2-star
2007: (4) 4-star, (17) 3-star, (2) 2-star
2008: (3) 4-star, (22) 3-star, (3) 2-star
2009: (4) 4-star, (18) 3-star, (4) 2-star
2010: (4) 4-star, (23) 3-star, (0) 2-star
2011: (2) 4-star, (21) 3-star, (2) 2-star
2012: (5) 4-star, (15) 3-star, (3) 2-star
2013: (3) 4-star, (18) 3-star, (3) 2-star
2014: (3) 4-star, (23) 3-star, (3) 2-star

We signed 34 total 4-star players, and 10 were drafted for a rate of 29.4%.
We signed 192 total 3-star players, and 9 were drafted for a rate of 4.7%.
We signed 27 total 2-star players, and none were drafted.

Players drafted:
James Washington - 3 star
Mason Rudolph - 4 star
Tre Flowers - 3 star
Marcell Ateman - 4 star
Vincent Taylor - 3 star
Chris Carson - 3 star
Tyreek Hill - 4 star
Emmanuel Ogbah - 3 star
Josh Furman - 4 star
Justin Gilbert - 4 star
Joseph Randle - 4 star
Justin Blackmon - 3 star
Markelle Martin - 4 star
Kendall Hunter - 3 star
Russell Okung - 3 star
Dez Bryant - 4 star
Perrish Cox - 4 star
Zac Robinson - 3 star
Ryan McBean - 4 star

A few notes from the study:
1. Brandon Weeden chose to play MLB, so he didn't have a football rating. That's why I left him out.
2. Josh Furman was a 4-star athlete, but he transferred here from Michigan.
3. Mike Gundy may not have been named the head coach yet when Ryan McBean signed.
4. Scout/247 has gone back and retroactively changed some of their ratings. For example, James Washington was originally rated as a low 3-star, but they now have him rated as a 4-star. So some of the data from this study may not match up to what they show now.

This study isn't perfect, but it gets the point across. The 4-star players we've signed here have had a much higher rate of becoming impact players and getting drafted into the NFL than the 3 & 2 star players we've signed.
Joe Khatib
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LS1Z28 said:

Joe Khatib said:


Can you share that study, number 2, on your list above? It would be interesting to see!!! Also, I WISH we would start seeing some results, like NCAA Tourney participation and wins from Boyntons highly ranked recruiting classes!!!
Recruiting class breakdown by year:
2005: (1) 4-star, (14) 3-star, (6) 2-star
2006: (5) 4-star, (21) 3-star, (1) 2-star
2007: (4) 4-star, (17) 3-star, (2) 2-star
2008: (3) 4-star, (22) 3-star, (3) 2-star
2009: (4) 4-star, (18) 3-star, (4) 2-star
2010: (4) 4-star, (23) 3-star, (0) 2-star
2011: (2) 4-star, (21) 3-star, (2) 2-star
2012: (5) 4-star, (15) 3-star, (3) 2-star
2013: (3) 4-star, (18) 3-star, (3) 2-star
2014: (3) 4-star, (23) 3-star, (3) 2-star

We signed 34 total 4-star players, and 10 were drafted for a rate of 29.4%.
We signed 192 total 3-star players, and 9 were drafted for a rate of 4.7%.
We signed 27 total 2-star players, and none were drafted.

Players drafted:
James Washington - 3 star
Mason Rudolph - 4 star
Tre Flowers - 3 star
Marcell Ateman - 4 star
Vincent Taylor - 3 star
Chris Carson - 3 star
Tyreek Hill - 4 star
Emmanuel Ogbah - 3 star
Josh Furman - 4 star
Justin Gilbert - 4 star
Joseph Randle - 4 star
Justin Blackmon - 3 star
Markelle Martin - 4 star
Kendall Hunter - 3 star
Russell Okung - 3 star
Dez Bryant - 4 star
Perrish Cox - 4 star
Zac Robinson - 3 star
Ryan McBean - 4 star

A few notes from the study:
1. Brandon Weeden chose to play MLB, so he didn't have a football rating. That's why I left him out.
2. Josh Furman was a 4-star athlete, but he transferred here from Michigan.
3. Mike Gundy may not have been named the head coach yet when Ryan McBean signed.
4. Scout/247 has gone back and retroactively changed some of their ratings. For example, James Washington was originally rated as a low 3-star, but they now have him rated as a 4-star. So some of the data from this study may not match up to what they show now.

This study isn't perfect, but it gets the point across. The 4-star players we've signed here have had a much higher rate of becoming impact players and getting drafted into the NFL than the 3 & 2 star players we've signed.
Thanks, that is a very meticulous breakdown with good solid information!
RodeoPoke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LS1Z28 said:

RodeoPoke said:


all anecdotal.

some people use statistics like a drunkard uses a lamppost, for support instead of illumination.

lies, damned lies, and statistics....
Haha, now you're just being cantankerous.

You can believe what you want to believe, but I think there's a significant correlation between Georgia winning back to back national championships and the fact that they've signed several straight top 5 classes.
no, not really.

if stars meant all of that then we would not have been the #2 team in the country in 2011 and only voted out of the MNC game by a corrupt poll. (not from lack of merit).

Cincinnati nor TCU would not have been playing in the MNC games recently. Never. They even beat the blue-blood top 10 recruiting ranking teams to get there.

OU and Texas would would never have BOTH missed out on recent conference championship games.

Yes, these are anecdotal statements as well, but they clearly shoot down your theories about stars. It simply would never happen, and/or we too can win without your sacred star ratings. We do need a great QB to do so, as does every top team. We've had plenty of 4-star QBs recently, some did well, some did not.

I saw your "study" below and it is full of these same types of false analogies.

you're welcome to your star gazing, but please don't chastise me for not falling for that nonsense.

RodeoPoke
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LS1Z28 said:


Recruiting class breakdown by year:
2005: (1) 4-star, (14) 3-star, (6) 2-star
2006: (5) 4-star, (21) 3-star, (1) 2-star
2007: (4) 4-star, (17) 3-star, (2) 2-star
2008: (3) 4-star, (22) 3-star, (3) 2-star
2009: (4) 4-star, (18) 3-star, (4) 2-star
2010: (4) 4-star, (23) 3-star, (0) 2-star
2011: (2) 4-star, (21) 3-star, (2) 2-star
2012: (5) 4-star, (15) 3-star, (3) 2-star
2013: (3) 4-star, (18) 3-star, (3) 2-star
2014: (3) 4-star, (23) 3-star, (3) 2-star

We signed 34 total 4-star players, and 10 were drafted for a rate of 29.4%.
We signed 192 total 3-star players, and 9 were drafted for a rate of 4.7%.
We signed 27 total 2-star players, and none were drafted.

Players drafted:
James Washington - 3 star
Mason Rudolph - 4 star
Tre Flowers - 3 star
Marcell Ateman - 4 star
Vincent Taylor - 3 star
Chris Carson - 3 star
Tyreek Hill - 4 star
Emmanuel Ogbah - 3 star
Josh Furman - 4 star
Justin Gilbert - 4 star
Joseph Randle - 4 star
Justin Blackmon - 3 star
Markelle Martin - 4 star
Kendall Hunter - 3 star
Russell Okung - 3 star
Dez Bryant - 4 star
Perrish Cox - 4 star
Zac Robinson - 3 star
Ryan McBean - 4 star


This study isn't perfect, but it gets the point across. The 4-star players we've signed here have had a much higher rate of becoming impact players and getting drafted into the NFL than the 3 & 2 star players we've signed.

For the record, I prefer to look at their "score", not their "stars", any kid .85 and up is quality.

a 29% success rate for one of the elite status of players is HORRIBLE. should be well over 50%.

It seems you restricted your "study" to only "drafted" players, not NFL players. For example, in that 2005 recruiting class (Zac Robinson), we also had Ricky Price that played 2 years in the NFL. I don't see Keith Toston, Brandon Pettigrew, and on, and on, and on.

The study is badly tainted by the restrictions that you placed on it....

and being in the NFL, is only one measure of being an "impact player".

the limitations that you placed on your "study" make it very, very misleading

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/oklahomast/index.htm
OT
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Perhaps not entirely comprehensive NFL data without the undrafted, but at least he pulled the data together. Why not simply pull that data together to ADD to the discussion?

Whether you like what Gundy has said about NIL or not, many of us are of similar mind. I'm not sure I want to "enable" Bentleys cruising the Strip or G5's with strippers at Stillwater Airport welcoming teenagers aboard.

Regardless, OState was a season-late-dollar-short with it's NIL program(s). The programs that were already paying players (KU basketball comes to mind) hit the ground running, meanwhile OState's donor and alumni base is just now really getting NIL setup.

From what I've heard, it sounds as if Spencer's $400K NIL deal likely cost him an NFL shot and polluted our locker room, which was a big influence on players leaving. The money is a nice-to-have. Hell, Thomas Harper received $200K from ND and would have had to fight like hell to win a starting role.

Could the coaches have handled the "cultural impact" of NIL better, really in it's first year last year? Very likely.
Could OState mega donors have aggressively kicked off NIL in 2021 as soon as pay-for-play was legalized? Absolutely.
Is a single season a "trend" indicating destruction of the program? Few rational people would make this extrapolation.
LS1Z28
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RodeoPoke said:


a 29% success rate for one of the elite status of players is HORRIBLE. should be well over 50%.

It seems you restricted your "study" to only "drafted" players, not NFL players. For example, in that 2005 recruiting class (Zac Robinson), we also had Ricky Price that played 2 years in the NFL. I don't see Keith Toston, Brandon Pettigrew, and on, and on, and on.

The study is badly tainted by the restrictions that you placed on it....

and being in the NFL, is only one measure of being an "impact player".

the limitations that you placed on your "study" make it very, very misleading

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/oklahomast/index.htm

A few notes:
1. Brandon Pettigrew signed in 2004 under Les Miles. I only included players that signed from 2005 to 2014.
2. There are a lot of undrafted players at every school that get a cup of coffee in the NFL. Most get cut or spend a year or two on a practice squad. It would be difficult to include undrafted free agents in a study like this because most never even record a stat in the NFL.
3. A 29% draft rate for 4-stars isn't bad at all because there are over 200 4-star prospects every year.

Check out the numbers from this national study:
5-star players are drafted at a rate of 63%.
4-star players are drafted at a rate of 22.1%.
3-star players are drafted at a rate of 5.3%.

It's all about statistical probability. 4 & 5 star players have a much higher probability of success than 2 & 3 star players. We're never going to go further than we have in the past until we start recruiting at a higher level.
tulsasig
How long do you want to ignore this user?
We may have a problem with NIL, but it is certainly not causing our current woes. We're getting outplayed and outcoached in every game. It's handy to use NIL as an excuse though.
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.