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Oklahoma State Offensive Review: This is Tremendously Sobering and Frustrating

September 17, 2023
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STILLWATER – I’ve watched it all back, both sides of the football, and chose to start on offense. Honestly, it is the most maimed and troubled side of the ball. It is sobering where Oklahoma State offense has gone in the matter of a couple of years. Oklahoma State completed the school’s largest comeback ever two seasons ago in the Fiesta Bowl over a top 10 Notre Dame team. Last night (Sept.

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Oklahoma State Offensive Review: This is Tremendously Sobering and Frustrating

16,236 Views | 56 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by CProc7
Pokes4158
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1:29p, 9/17/23
Think about after this season. Our line is bad and we don't have depth like we were sold. So these older guys leave and then we have a young line that's underdeveloped and even less skilled. How do view things in the long term? I mean really. Is Dickey gonna all of a sudden be better with a bunch of young guys after he had a full 5 years to develop his first unit. He has failed. I mean we are gonna have to hit the transfer portal with money otherwise the drop off is gonna continue. We have the potential for some major downtime if we don't make big attempts to fix things. Especially if we have another portal exodus.
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Jim4OSU
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1:36p, 9/17/23
How does OSU bring in better players when the teams plays as poorly as they have in the first 3 games. It looks to me a lot of changes in coaches needs to happen to entice better players to come to Stillwater.
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Csquaredosu66
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In reply to Pokes4158 • 1:50p, 9/17/23
Pokes4158 said:
Think about after this season. Our line is bad and we don't have depth like we were sold. So these older guys leave and then we have a young line that's underdeveloped and even less skilled. How do view things in the long term? I mean really. Is Dickey gonna all of a sudden be better with a bunch of young guys after he had a full 5 years to develop his first unit. He has failed. I mean we are gonna have to hit the transfer portal with money otherwise the drop off is gonna continue. We have the potential for some major downtime if we don't make big attempts to fix things. Especially if we have another portal exodus.


I heard Dickey is retiring after this season and that is why Gundy won't fire him
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Pistolp
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2:18p, 9/17/23
Two huge problems:

First - we can't pick starters at either of two key positions, QB or RB. I'm in favor of giving some others some PT in the non-conference, but you still need your starters. We've had too many rotating in and out at both positions to gain any continuity. Offense is constantly adjusting to who is in at the moment.

Second - the great disconnect. We heard all off season about the change in the offense, bringing in a true TE, having a true full back for additional blocking, going under center and running the ball with the line gap blocking versus zone blocking. Yet we have started every game in the same offense we have run the past two years or so. Shotgun QB, and virtually all passing plays. And they appear to me to be almost all the same old plays we have run in the past, nothing new. I can count on my fingers, maybe just on one hand, the number of true "new offense" plays we have run in 3 games. Was that all a smoke screen? Did the new offense in fact not work? Is coach Dunn just refusing to run the new offense???

The arbitrary QB rotation feeds into this, staff wants to see each QB run through reads and make decisions and not just hand off on running plays.

Pick and play a starting QB. Pick and play a starting TE and the same for a FB. Pick a starting RB. Play them at least the entire first half. Go under center and let's see this new offense and if we can establish a running game. Throw in a pass or two off play action - but establish the run first. Tell the O line this is what they are going to be doing on Tuesday, and to buckle up their collective chin straps. Don't know that it will work, but I think it just might. And it can't be any worse than what we have seen. If it doesn't work and we get behind, you can always go back to the spread.
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principalg
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In reply to Csquaredosu66 • 2:38p, 9/17/23
Fire him now!!!!!
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eddy.mcdaniels
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3:07p, 9/17/23
Lol what a delusional article.
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pokes_fan00
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3:16p, 9/17/23
When do they give some of the young OL a chance? Kawecki, Endean and others should be given an opportunity, the upperclassmen aren't getting it done.
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AspenPoke
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3:21p, 9/17/23
Robert: To be honest, I only remember coming in to the season hearing we would be better at O-line w/the huge kid that went to BYU gone & a few backups w/attitude gone, as well as Birmingham back & better center play.

Maybe it was just my wishful thinking?
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DontTreadOnPete
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3:24p, 9/17/23
The offensive coaches had all offseason to fix the obvious problems with qb play/ line play/ playcalling. Instead they blamed injuries and all stuck their heads in the sand and pretended like all we needed was a minor tweak to the blocking scheme. They are clearly not willing and/or able to make the necessary changes so now they should be fired. I like Gundy, but he used all his goodwill with the fan base vouching for Dunn & Dickey last season. If he won't do what needs to be done now, then he should be on the chopping block as well.
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OSUC
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3:32p, 9/17/23
Tremendously sobering? I will quit drinking all together if I see another display like last night. Embarrassing, humiliating, and pathetic.
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petrifiedagg
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4:00p, 9/17/23
Not one of the three qb's that have played are Div one. Flores must really be not ready. Also , not noted, Bray's drop ended up costing us our best receiver on the next play.
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Jally
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6:30p, 9/17/23
The solution to the QB situation is obvious. There isn't one. It does not matter which QB we put back there with this OL. None of them stand a chance. They have no run game to share the load. Plus, when they drop back to pass, the rush is in the backfield before they can blink. In my opinion, Rangel is the best overall. But Gundy at least has chance to run for his life from the pass rush. Good luck guys. I don't see a reason to throw the true freshman to the wolves and possibly ruin his career.
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TXPokeEnding
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6:39p, 9/17/23
The first three teams we've played this season come out of the gate and have drives. We don't. Please explain.

Is it the limited playbook? Limited because we have three QBs dividing the practice reps, so that we keep things very vanilla?
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RodeoPoke
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In reply to Pistolp • 6:55p, 9/17/23
I believe Gundy said we came out passing because they were playing the Safety closer to the box, not perhaps the approach that we wanted (l.e. run) but what was dictated by their defensive posture.

FWIW


Three games seems to be enough to name starters.... Gundy at QB and give Gordon the ball 25 times

let 'er rip
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Jally
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In reply to TXPokeEnding • 6:55p, 9/17/23
It's a good question to ask. And it has been going on for a lot longer than 3 games. I give the staff credit for making great half time adjustments, but we have to ask why are our opponents consistently getting out in front of us in the first half.
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JPat
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7:03p, 9/17/23
This is literally just a continuation of the last several games from last year. Not one single thing has gotten better. All the lies and misdirection about the O-line being a lot better have turned out to be a pipe dream.

I mean seriously, next game just keep your eyes glued on the line of scrimmage when we snap the ball. The other team's D-line, no matter WHO we are even playing, just comes crashing into the backfield in lightning fast time. It's like our guys don't even have a CLUE who to block, or how. It is SO depressing to watch the line of scrimmage when we have the ball.
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RodeoPoke
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In reply to TXPokeEnding • 7:09p, 9/17/23
TXPoke4Life said:
The first three teams we've played this season come out of the gate and have drives. We don't. Please explain.

Is it the limited playbook? Limited because we have three QBs dividing the practice reps, so that we keep things very vanilla?
execution. and I don't think your memory is accurate.

our first drive would have been a TD Saturday if Bray could have executed an easy catch. They crushed us with their rushing attack, which I said preseason was a fear of mine - that the odd man front was going to allow strong rush teams to maul us.

In our first game we had a nice drive going got to the UCA 30 then Rangel threw the pick. Even still, we were up 13-0 at the half.

we were 7-7 with AZ state in the 2nd, and 15-10 at the half, so it's not like we did nothing, like you suggested.


We keep getting drives stalled by penalties, dropped balls and miscommunication.

Plus we have given up some deep pass plays that killed us.




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cannewt
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In reply to RodeoPoke • 8:44p, 9/17/23
Further stats from my previous post yesterday.

"#OKState offense ranks:

Points/Game - 110th (20.3)
Yards/Rush - 94th (3.91)
Yards/Pass Attempt - 127th (5.3)
Yards/Play - 122nd (4.68)
3rd Down Conv. - 85th (39.13%)
Run Plays 10+ yards - 110th (10)
Pass Plays 20+ yards - 109th (6)

That's out of 130 FBS teams."

This feels like the season we went 6-6 and turned Rudolph loose at the end of the year. Think we are in for a bumpy season regardless of Qb we pick. After bedlam, give Flores the ball and hope he's our savior like Rudolph was.
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cscotty7
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In reply to cannewt • 9:11p, 9/17/23
Sign me up for 6-6 right now!! No way we get to 6 wins playing like we did last night!! This is Gundys worst team since 2005 and that 05 team started 3-0. Major changes need to happen on offense!!
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eddy.mcdaniels
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9:18p, 9/17/23
We'll be lucky to win another game. The scheme is simple, there's no talent, no qb, and no coach.
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TooOld1917
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9:18p, 9/17/23
  • How about support the kids! Win, lose or draw, they are our kids and deserve the best we can give them. As for all the complaining, how would each one of the complainers on here like to have themselves critiqued as they do the coaches and the kids. I would bet a lot of money that most of the top complainers never played in a major college football game in their life and/or have never been a coach at that level. I find it interesting in the United States that we have so many people who are experts in fields where they have neither the experience nor education or to have a say. It would be about like me going to an international scientific meeting in biochemistry in which I have no training and then questioning and arguing with the scientists who are presenting papers!! Eye Roll!!
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Guitar54
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9:23p, 9/17/23
"I don't think our schemes were as good as they should have been," ---Gundy

They seldom are. Dunn appears to be incapable of adjusting to what the other team is doing or scheming around our weaknesses. And we aren't talented enough to overcome poor coaching. We're at the point where Gundy needs to quit telling us our schemes are bad and make a move to rebuild the offensive coaching staff. Not sure he has it in him anymore to do it though. Being the boss means making uncomfortable and unpleasant decisions. Time for him to man up and make the call.
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Guitar54
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In reply to AspenPoke • 9:26p, 9/17/23
AspenPoke said:
Robert: To be honest, I only remember coming in to the season hearing we would be better at O-line w/the huge kid that went to BYU gone & a few backups w/attitude gone, as well as Birmingham back & better center play.

Maybe it was just my wishful thinking?
Yeah, I don't remember Robert saying the O Line was a problem either. Quite the opposite, actually.
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Guitar54
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In reply to Csquaredosu66 • 9:29p, 9/17/23
Csquaredosu66 said:
Pokes4158 said:
Think about after this season. Our line is bad and we don't have depth like we were sold. So these older guys leave and then we have a young line that's underdeveloped and even less skilled. How do view things in the long term? I mean really. Is Dickey gonna all of a sudden be better with a bunch of young guys after he had a full 5 years to develop his first unit. He has failed. I mean we are gonna have to hit the transfer portal with money otherwise the drop off is gonna continue. We have the potential for some major downtime if we don't make big attempts to fix things. Especially if we have another portal exodus.


I heard Dickey is retiring after this season and that is why Gundy won't fire him
Very interesting. I appreciate the compassion Gundy may hold for Dickey, as I'm sure he's a great guy, but this is a business and a big money one at that. CEO's have to make the really tough calls. And CEO's making 8 million a year have no excuses. In today's Portal and NIL era, 2 bad years in a row can put a program in a death spiral.
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Roughrider
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10:02p, 9/17/23
Obviously, we will not make the necessary changes until forced to through humiliation and horrible losses.

I would settle for a milestone development - Mike Gundy looking like he actually cares during the game. At one point I thought he might doze off.
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Roughrider
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10:03p, 9/17/23
If only we could recruit and coach like South Alabama.
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Hawkn86
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In reply to Guitar54 • 10:39p, 9/17/23
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Hawkn86
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10:48p, 9/17/23
Most of the starting o-line are in their 5th (or more) year and they still can't move anyone off the ball. Depressing.
Robert--you sold us that Etienne would not be missed....he was too inconsistent. Well, he gave up one sack last year in the entire season. Nice evaluation!
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Hawkn86
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10:56p, 9/17/23
"The encouraging aspect is unforced errors, drops, penalties, even turnovers can be corrected, corrected quickly."

Robert--WTH is this? The o-line holding penalties are often due to their lack of athleticism. The drops are a physical mistake. Pre-snap penalties or mental mistakes can be corrected quickly.

Is it too much to ask for the Pokes, who have been pretty damn good over the last decade, to successfully recruit ONE highly sought after HS o-lineman each year?!?!
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Hawkn86
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In reply to cannewt • 11:03p, 9/17/23
Numbers don't lie. I would not put Flores in behind that line though. He might never recover!
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SWCowboyD
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8:12a, 9/18/23
We will never be able to evaluate the QBs until the offensive line is fixed. I went back and watched the replay of the game on ESPN Plus. I just watched the first three possessions of both OSU and USA. I focused on our Oline blocking on run plays, then rewound and watched our receiver routes on pass plays. I then watched USA online blocking run on run plays, then I watched USA receiver routes on their pass plays. OMG Its very apparent that USA was better coached. There blocking schemes were simple, but effective. they would quickly double team our front three DL with their OL and TE, then two OL slipped off and got to our LBs. This gave their RB a lane to get through between G and T. then they would mix in a pulling G to flood the T an TE gap for a power run play. The Pass routes were well designed to confuse our DBs and LBs by flooding an area then a few simple crosses with different routes for each receiver. I have to give it up to USA, it was a very well devised plan against us. I then went and watched our blocking schemes versus their same three man front. OMG!!! All we tried to do was single team each of their front three. We looked lost on who we were supposed to block! The few times we did pull a linemen it was slow to develop and our pulling linemen looked lost on who he was supposed to block and blocked the wrong person on defense filling the open gap. When I watched our receiver routes it was disgusting. In three possession we only ran one route devised to confuse their coverage. It was the crossing route that Bray dropped the pass that would have resulted in a TD. The rest of the routes just ran 5-10 yards down the filed and turned around.

Like I said I only watched the first three series of each team. I saw enough there to understand that this is not so much a player problem, but a coaching problem. Our players are not being put in schemes and situations where they can succeed. If our players had the USA blocking schemes and receiver routes then it would have been a much different result. If you have the ability to go and watch the game replay on ESPN Plus please LET ME KNOW YOUR OPINION on what you see!!! Am I seeing this wrong?
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CProc7
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In reply to SWCowboyD • 8:56a, 9/18/23
The only thing I can imagine is they are trying to run similar plays for each Qb which is limiting what the offense can do. It seems we are on page one of the playbook. Generally you see a trick play or two at this point and unless I've missed it I haven't seen one. The line is forced into running the same plays over and over if the defense knows what's coming they can adjust to it. We haven't caught a defense over playing something very often and when we do it's a WIDE open drop or a penalty. I haven't seen play and coaching this bad in a while. We need a leader and so far I haven't seen one on either side of the ball coach or player.
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VACowboy
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9:04a, 9/18/23
In my mind it's as simple as this. Dunn and Dickey need to go and if Gundy does not make that happen then he needs to go with them. I've been a Gundy supporter for his entire coaching career but enough is enough. He built this program but now he is allowing it to fall apart. It just feels like the game has left him behind or he has lost his passion. Regardless, something needs to change. There are a lot of longtime fans and supporters, just like me, that deserve better. Not looking to win every game but Gundy needs to put a team on the field every game that is not an embarrassment.
Go Pokes! Go Bearcats!
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Pokes4158
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In reply to Csquaredosu66 • 9:11a, 9/18/23
Please let this be true
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Pistolp
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In reply to VACowboy • 9:54a, 9/18/23
VACowboy said:
In my mind it's as simple as this. Dunn and Dickey need to go and if Gundy does not make that happen then he needs to go with them. I've been a Gundy supporter for his entire coaching career but enough is enough. He built this program but now he is allowing it to fall apart. It just feels like the game has left him behind or he has lost his passion. Regardless, something needs to change. There are a lot of longtime fans and supporters, just like me, that deserve better. Not looking to win every game but Gundy needs to put a team on the field every game that is not an embarrassment.
I have assumed Dunn and Dickey were coaching for their jobs this year - that better be the case. I don't know about the QB coach. QB's are running for their lives with no time to throw downfield. If we can't throw downfield, without that real threat, our old offense does not work.

But then I ask why are we continuing to run the old offense with limited playbook??? Don't get me started on the huge disconnect between what has been said and what we are seeing again.....
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