Rattay Talks Quarterbacks, Sanders' Improvement, and More this Summer

it sounds like he's the best QB coach we've ever had... I hope they're compensating him to keep him here.

I'm really glad to hear that Sanders may have improved in his footwork, and cut down the happy feet.... isn't this his 4th year in the system? Did the other coaches not teach him anything?

making the correct call at the line, and cutting down TOs will be the difference between 8 and 10 wins.

Rattay has only been with the cowboys since Jan of 2020 so he has only been working with Spencer for 1 and a half years but then factor COVID into it and Spencer has only had a dedicated QB coach for maybe 8-10 months (maybe less?).

My guess is that he has learned a lot more from Rattay as a dedicated QB coach than past coaches because they focused on all of the offense and couldn't give Spencer full attention.

Completely agree with cutting down the TOs and also taking what the defense gives will be a huge difference between the amount of wins!

yeah, I get all of that... but none of our past QBs had dedicated QB coaches either, and most of them did just fine anyway...

maybe Gundy's 15 game excuse will be prophetic, and overnight Sanders will be the next coming of Spencer Rattler.

we will know what we will know in a few more weeks..... Go Pokes.

I hope, like Robert reported, that Sanders is now taking what the defense is giving; taking the short pass and moving right down the field. Weeden was a master at that.

I think it was different just because of the style of offense we had been running. For the last X(10?) amount of years, our offense was geared to Pro style QBs (Zach (kind of), Weeden, Rudolph, Corn dog) and then it shifted completely once Spencer came in and the whole offensive approach changed to almost run first and QB pass/run was almost an afterthought. RPOs mixed in there but I got the feeling that since Corn dog left, our offensive approach was trying to figure out what may or may not work during games. Not the best plan or even ideal plan but it was a learning as we went approach. We did have Justice and Chuba (LD back up) so Gundy was comfy with the run first.

I think Gundy realized that and that was the reason for the QB coach hire to make sure the most important piece of the offense isn't an afterthought.

I do trust Robert's examination as well because he has that experience to see the changes in all of the QBs that he has watched so "fingers crossed" as I know you are doing the same thing lol

Ksquared2015 said:

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I think it was different just because of the style of offense we had been running. For the last X(10?) amount of years, our offense was geared to Pro style QBs (Zach (kind of), Weeden, Rudolph, Corn dog) and then it shifted completely once Spencer came in and the whole offensive approach changed to almost run first and QB pass/run was almost an afterthought. RPOs mixed in there but I got the feeling that since Corn dog left, our offensive approach was trying to figure out what may or may not work during games. Not the best plan or even ideal plan but it was a learning as we went approach. We did have Justice and Chuba (LD back up) so Gundy was comfy with the run first.

I think Gundy realized that and that was the reason for the QB coach hire to make sure the most important piece of the offense isn't an afterthought.

I do trust Robert's examination as well because he has that experience to see the changes in all of the QBs that he has watched so "fingers crossed" as I know you are doing the same thing lol

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you must watch a different OSU Cowboys team than I watch.... what about Walsh, and Chelf, and that whole string of QBs before, then we didn't have anybody like that available (cause Sanders couldn't get it), and we had to start Corndog?

The ONLY TIMES we "shifted offenses", is when we put in Weeden and then Rudolph, other than that it's been the same lousey offense for the past 15 years. (well, Zach did give us a bit more passing, but he still ran way too much) (I was at that 7 TD game against SMU at Gerald Ford stadium)

We know what works, throw the dang ball down the field, throw it long, throw it short, throw it to the flats, just put somebody in there that can throw it, even if it's a former walkon (Corndog). Sanders was a dang eyelash away from not even beating out Dru Brown, and SS only started last year, IMHO, because COVID kept Illingworth from getting any meaningful time with the playbook and the offense. We have to throw the ball, and I hope SS can get it done.

we had great rushing attacks with Zach, and with Weeden and with Rudolph... it wasn't that bad with Corndog.

the only way we're going to run the ball is force teams to keep 8 men out of the box, and we're not going to do that without throwing the dang ball. The more that SS is a threat to run, the more guys they will keep at the LOS.

I don't think I explained myself well with the QB mentions.

Even with Walsh and Chelf, the offense was still a pass first offense. Yes, they leaned towards more of a dual threat QB than a pro style but our offense dictated pass first and then running/QB run second thought. I agree with you that we absolutely need to go back to that and I think we will see that more with Spencer this year reading the defense better, taking what they give, but also taking deep shots when it looks good.

However, with the changes of the offensive coordinators after Mike Y. and then Gleeson and then Kasey (along with Rattay as QB Coach), I believe that has hindered a consistent offensive playbook and that is what caused Gundy to want to just run first and then worry about passing later (not sure if you watched the ESPN+ episodes during last season but it was very evident that Gundy calls the run plays and wants a lot of them). If we get back to pass first and/or even more RPOs, we will see better success with Spencer.

My first point was basically that Spencer did not have a consistent coach his first few years so there is always a learning curve with each one (and some setbacks) and then the lack of any coaching really during COVID shutdown last year. I expect that Rattay has absolutely seen a change with Spencer because he is receiving direct and consistent coaching with Rattay being his direct coach.

I don't think that's what I've been watching.

We run first almost always, unless we don't have a QB that can run.

All we do is hand off on first down, or RPO on every down, except 3rd and long.

Most of our fan base that post online complain continually about how predictable the offense is. When hand-offs off tackle break down, we try to scoot it out side, when that breaks down we go with the silly jet sweep.

I'm talking about passing first. First down, 2nd down, 3rd down, 4th down and short.... doesn't matter.

The RPO requires a skill that either our QBs don't have or can't read properly. I saw Urban Meyer on the pre-game shows once talking about what the QB is supposed to be looking at, and the way he showed it... it's dang simple, but our kids don't seem to understand what to look for.

All of these discussion could be moot if the OLine doesn't play a whole lot better than last year's injury plagued msess.

Our offense absolutely depends on whether Gundy and Co. trust the QB to pass or not without having TO issues (i.e. Weeden and Rudolph).
So I was curious based on what you were saying vs statistical #s.

In looking at the last 15 seasons (on national rankings for passing #s):

7 of those seasons, our team was in the top 10 nationally for passing yards per game (PYpG) for an average ranking of #5 at 349 PYpG

8 of those seasons, our team's highest ranking was #27 (twice) for an average ranking of #57 at 229 PYpG

The last 2 seasons (2019 and 2020) our average ranking was #70 at 224 PYpG (hot garbage)
The prior 4 seasons before that (2015-2018) our average ranking was #6 at 344 PYpG (hot #s!)

When we have a Prostyle QB - our passing #s are one of the best rankings in the nation.
When we have a Dual threat QB - our passing #s are avg or worse rankings (but hopefully this changes this year!)

Spencer (and coaches must allow) needs to be passing around 325+ PYpG for our offense to succeed and have the best possible record to set us up for Big 12 championship game and also attempting to get into the playoffs.

All that said, we agree that we absolutely need to be passing more and hopefully Rattay has instilled more confidence into Spencer and helped him calm down to better read the defense on every play.

yep, we're better with passing QBs (everybody knows it but Gundy) ..... supposedly those things to help Sanders improve occurred. We fans won't know for a few more weeks.

I still worry about Sanders health too...

If he goes out again, I don't think we'll see him again (due to the performance of our other QBs)

I'm glad we have decent options.

We're neither a run first nor a pass first offense. We run what the defense gives us (Gundy has only said this at least a million times). The QB that takes the field is the QB that is deemed best at operating an offense designed to take what the defense gives. The "change" we've seen over the past couple of years are the defenses in the B12. It has become more difficult to heavily rely on a passing game - thus an apparent shift to more running, or said differently, more balanced offenses. The fact that Sanders runs (occasionally) the ball really has little to do with his designation as QB1. We can only assume he's the best or most efficient at running the offense as designed.

YOU can assume anything that you want... WE don't have to assume anything.

good lord gumby, give it a freaking rest with the Gundy knows best speeches. Design a new offense if that's the best the offense you have can do.


OSU had 551 rushing attempts for a 3.9 average, and 381 passing attempts. You're going to sit there straight faced and claim that our opponents "gave us rushing attempts" and defended the pass because Sanders was such a great passer, and they felt they had to play 7 in coverage? and yet, also held us to 3.9 ypc?

it's hard to do a team-team comparison on last year's stats, because we played 12 games and most teams only played 10 or 11, and two only played 9 games.

I get the rah-rah speeches and such, there just isn't much statistical support for backing.

https://big12sports.com/stats.aspx?path=football&year=2020

CaliforniaCowboy said:

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YOU can assume anything that you want... WE don't have to assume anything.

good lord gumby, give it a freaking rest with the Gundy knows best speeches. Design a new offense if that's the best the offense you have can do.


OSU had 551 rushing attempts for a 3.9 average, and 381 passing attempts. You're going to sit there straight faced and claim that our opponents "gave us rushing attempts" and defended the pass because Sanders was such a great passer, and they felt they had to play 7 in coverage? and yet, also held us to 3.9 ypc?

it's hard to do a team-team comparison on last year's stats, because we played 12 games and most teams only played 10 or 11, and two only played 9 games.

I get the rah-rah speeches and such, there just isn't much statistical support for backing.

https://big12sports.com/stats.aspx?path=football&year=2020

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Clearly you think one or more of my statements either false, or outright incorrect. Please tell us EXACTLY which of my statements are such. I'll wait.

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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Clearly you think one or more of my statements either false, or outright incorrect. Please tell us EXACTLY which of my statements are such. I'll wait.

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go pick a fight with somebody else.

Clearly YOU THINK that I said something wrong, or you would not have posted that "Gundy is the greatest" blub.

quick trying to pick fights with everybody, and have a conversation for once.

CaliforniaCowboy said:

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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Clearly you think one or more of my statements either false, or outright incorrect. Please tell us EXACTLY which of my statements are such. I'll wait.

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go pick a fight with somebody else.

Clearly YOU THINK that I said something wrong, or you would not have posted that "Gundy is the greatest" blub.

quick trying to pick fights with everybody, and have a conversation for once.

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Who's picking a fight with who? Did I enter this discussion and quote you? Did I specifically state something you said in a previous post was false? Where did I say "Gundy is the greatest"? Are your panties in a particularly tight and uncomfortable knot?

Gundy, Dunn, Rattay, Sanders, Illingworth, Gunnar Gundy, Corndog (and many others) have said we run what the defense gives us. That's why we almost always go to the LOS with a run and pass option (as stated by the same group mentioned above). If the defense lines up with 5 or 6 in the box, we'll run most every time (except 3rd and long). If the defense lines up with 8 in the box, we'll pass most every time. That's the way college football works these days.

The B12 defenses (which now for the most part dictate what you run on offense) have changed significantly over the past 5 years, thus the complete shift in run/pass balance. The following is the B12 run/pass ratio over the last 5 seasons:

2016 - 54%/46%
2017 - 51/49
2018 - 53/47
2019 - 64/36
2020 - 65/35

Similarly, OSU has also made the shift, unrelated to the type of QB on the field:

2016 - 47/53
2017 - 50/50
2018 - 51/49
2019 - 71/29
2020- 70/30

oh my..... all defenses all time (forever) dictate what you run on offense... this stuff is not new.

they're running the 4-2-5 (Bill Clay from Les Miles days defense) or the 3-3-5, or some other variation where we line up in a 4-2-5 and drop the DE back into a 3-3-5.

ISU is running an inverted Tampa2 defense, which is not new.

The RPO only works if you have a QB that can read the safety properly. (and you don't have a battered OLine like we had).

Pro-style offense still works just fine. OU uses a pulling guard to overload one side, which I almost never see OSU running. Our offenses are horrible. They stink. No creativity.

here's a good article about ISU defense and OSU offense (from 2019 Corndog).

The Gundy-raid vs Heacock's Inverted Tampa-2
http://sportstreatise.com/2019/03/the-gundy-raid-vs-heacocks-inverted-tampa-2/

here are some more interesting things to consider.

one of them Urban Meyer was talking about LSU and Joe Burrow, and he said that the offensive formation that LSU set up dictates what formation that the defense has to use.

anyway... this is pretty interesting and makes it very clear what the QB must do.


and this one focuses on the footwork needed by the QB (and the ball pressure) to signal to the RB on whether it's a hand-off or not.

well that link didn't work...

just do a search on Urban Meyer and RPO.... lots of very good stuff. The guy absolutely know what he's talking about

One of the follow up questions on Rattay was on tweaks or changes from last season to this one.

"It's really just dialing in on what we do like before I was here it was air-raid, the ball was here the ball was there, it was great, and Mason Rudolph was slinging it everywhere and Cornelius was too. I think it's just about getting back to those habits, and I think it's going to be a lot like what it used to."