Cowboys Simply Need To Put On Their Best Face and Push Relevance and Resume

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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You agreed with expansion. Nothing about waiting. Nothing about exploring options. Nothing about the expiration of the GOR. Nothing about being ready if we do get asked by a P4. Just to heck with the PAC, let's expand.

This is the EXACT attitude and precise post which caused me to post:

"No,no, no"

Own it, dude.

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

yes, I do think that expansion is likely our best option (regardless of all other options... BUT IT DID QUALIFY IT WITH - depending on whether a 12-team playoff is created with the B12 getting an AUTOMATIC birth.

that's a big, big, if.... we have to WAIT for those types of decisions.. . why did you leave that out of your troll re-write?

actually read what is written by other, and stop trolling

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Now who is making stuff up? You're waiting to see if the B12 gets an automatic bid in a 12team playoff? Who said that? I don't see it anywhere in your ramblings. Please point me to that post.

BTW, the 12-team CFP proposal does not contain automatic bids for specific conferences. It's the 6 highest ranked conference champions that get an automatic bid.

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troll, troll, troll away....

It's there, I've said it... it's the very cornerstone of my entire position on the subject.

this is not different than when we point out the good math, but all you would do is double down and triple down on your bad math... despite being told repeatedly that the information had been posted.

all you want to do is ridicule other posters and tell everybody what they have to think .....

it's tiring. troll, troll, troll, away

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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You agreed with expansion. Nothing about waiting. Nothing about exploring options. Nothing about the expiration of the GOR. Nothing about being ready if we do get asked by a P4. Just to heck with the PAC, let's expand.

This is the EXACT attitude and precise post which caused me to post:

"No,no, no"

Own it, dude.

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

yes, I do think that expansion is likely our best option (regardless of all other options... BUT IT DID QUALIFY IT WITH - depending on whether a 12-team playoff is created with the B12 getting an AUTOMATIC birth.

that's a big, big, if.... we have to WAIT for those types of decisions.. . why did you leave that out of your troll re-write?

actually read what is written by other, and stop trolling

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Now who is making stuff up? You're waiting to see if the B12 gets an automatic bid in a 12team playoff? Who said that? I don't see it anywhere in your ramblings. Please point me to that post.

BTW, the 12-team CFP proposal does not contain automatic bids for specific conferences. It's the 6 highest ranked conference champions that get an automatic bid.

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

troll, troll, troll away....

It's there, I've said it... it's the very cornerstone of my entire position on the subject.

this is not different than when we point out the good math, but all you would do is double down and triple down on your bad math... despite being told repeatedly that the information had been posted.

all you want to do is ridicule other posters and tell everybody what they have to think .....

it's tiring. troll, troll, troll, away

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Trolling? You've responded directly to 8 of my posts. You bashed 4 of my posts before I began firing back. I've responded to 4 of your posts - primarily because I can't figure out what you think since you keep changing your story and making things up. I'm done, it's useless.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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...I'm done, ,,,.

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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I hope so

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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Oh, I forgot. Only 6 of the 8 remaining schools have expressed interest in expansion. 2 of the 8 have indicated no interest/hesitant/reluctant/opposed to expansion. Those 2 are Kansas and .Oklahoma State.

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Kansas is on the expansion committee. I doubt OSU is holding out.

Pistolp said:

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I haven't read the GOR agreement, and I'm guessing noone else has either. BUT -

I don't think the "mitigation of loss" idea would probably carry any water legally. My understanding is the Big XII owns the TV rights for all teams including OU and TX through 2025. Period. It is not a matter of "covering lost revenue"; the conference just owns them if remaining teams are harmed or not.

If the conference were to improve it's other income by expansion, I don't think it would have any bearing on the GOR unless it had some clause which references "lost revenue to remaining teams" in the GOR, which I just can't imagine it would. If it does, they need some new attorneys to right up agreements for them. You should never limit the justification for owning the rights like that.

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Actually you can't affect the income of OU & UT for the last two years they are in the conference because they forfeited that when they said they were leaving. So you could expand, make them play the new members, and pay out any sum you wanted to the new members. And it would actually increase the payout as it would increase the inventory by 13 games.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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Oh, I forgot. Only 6 of the 8 remaining schools have expressed interest in expansion. 2 of the 8 have indicated no interest/hesitant/reluctant/opposed to expansion. Those 2 are Kansas and .Oklahoma State.

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NJAggie said:

Kansas is on the expansion committee. I doubt OSU is holding out.

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I was quoting a conference source. Just because KU is on the committee doesn't mean they are in favor of expanding. Always good to have opposing views on an exploration committee. Believe it, or don't believe it. That's your choice.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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Oh, I forgot. Only 6 of the 8 remaining schools have expressed interest in expansion. 2 of the 8 have indicated no interest/hesitant/reluctant/opposed to expansion. Those 2 are Kansas and .Oklahoma State.

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NJAggie said:

Kansas is on the expansion committee. I doubt OSU is holding out.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

I was quoting a conference source. Just because KU is on the committee doesn't mean they are in favor of expanding. Always good to have opposing views on an exploration committee. Believe it, or don't believe it. That's your choice.

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I'd believe KU could be against expansion, they've shown themselves to be pretty stupid in these matters and probably still imagine the B1G is just dying to have their bad juco football program.

If they are hopefully OSU isn't so KU can't sign the death certificate for the Big XII and get us all farmed out to the MWC & AAC.

NJAggie said:

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If they are hopefully OSU isn't so KU can't sign the death certificate for the Big XII and get us all farmed out to the MWC & AAC.

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what does that mean?

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NJAggie said:

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If they are hopefully OSU isn't so KU can't sign the death certificate for the Big XII and get us all farmed out to the MWC & AAC.

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

what does that mean?

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Well if KU or any of the schools finds a way to stop any planning for life after OU/UT leave as some want, then the conference is dead on 2025 when OU/UT leave. You can't wait until there is no expansion and no TV deal. You have to make plans to have teams ready to go when OU/UT exit, and before you can negotiate a new TV deal.

Having people ready doesn't mean in the conference before OU/UT leave although there is no reason you couldn't. If you reach 2025 with nothing done as some seem to want, and just hoping for an invite that is not assured or even likely, then you will have put us in place to do nothing but grasp at any open option probably the MWC or AAC.

ahhh... stop listening to those who supposedly have inside information.... it's nonsense.

KU is on the committee and they are looking at every single option that may be available, just like everybody else.

KU is worst off of all the teams, IMHO. They got nothing to offer anybody, even their once storied basketball program is on the skids and under investigation.

KU only won regular season once in past 3 years, and only won the conf tournament once in the past 5 years (no tournament in 2020 though, so 1 in 4 technically)

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NJAggie said:

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If they are hopefully OSU isn't so KU can't sign the death certificate for the Big XII and get us all farmed out to the MWC & AAC.

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

what does that mean?

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NJAggie said:

Well if KU or any of the schools finds a way to stop any planning for life after OU/UT leave as some want, then the conference is dead on 2025 when OU/UT leave. You can't wait until there is no expansion and no TV deal. You have to make plans to have teams ready to go when OU/UT exit, and before you can negotiate a new TV deal.

Having people ready doesn't mean in the conference before OU/UT leave although there is no reason you couldn't. If you reach 2025 with nothing done as some seem to want, and just hoping for an invite that is not assured or even likely, then you will have put us in place to do nothing but grasp at any open option probably the MWC or AAC.

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Realizing most every school would most likely prefer to move to one of the existing P4 conferences, I think the option of B12 expansion will have to approached with the idea that some or none of the schools will be moving on, thus requiring a process that both identifies the best expansion possibilities but also allows schools to seek a better deal without prejudice.

Here's my guess on how it's probably going to work (or something similar), in chronological order.

The Conference will gather data on all the prospective expansion teams and discuss with various media providers potential new media deals and values, thus determining the optimal teams and numbers to add.

The Conference will then set a date (probably some date around the expected date of a new PAC media deal) to send out invitations to new teams. This may be public announcement to allow potential new teams time to work out their own tentative exit plans, or it may be just an internal B12 communication, or something in-between.

Conference teams will then have a window (after the above mentioned announcement and prior to the invitation date) to either decide to stay with the B12, or explore other potential homes with other conferences. The other P4 conferences will then have to decide, prior to the B12 invitation date, to either invite certain B12 teams to their conference, or essentially pass on B12 teams for good.

Depending on the number of existing B12 teams to stay, the Conference will then formally invite the number of select new schools to fill the optimal conference size with play to begin in 2025.

The B12 then enters into a definitive new media deal effective with the 2025 season.

Now I'm sure some of you will poo-poo the whole idea, but until someone in this world presents a more logical process, I'm sticking with this as my expectation.

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NJAggie said:

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If they are hopefully OSU isn't so KU can't sign the death certificate for the Big XII and get us all farmed out to the MWC & AAC.

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

what does that mean?

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NJAggie said:

Well if KU or any of the schools finds a way to stop any planning for life after OU/UT leave as some want, then the conference is dead on 2025 when OU/UT leave. You can't wait until there is no expansion and no TV deal. You have to make plans to have teams ready to go when OU/UT exit, and before you can negotiate a new TV deal.

Having people ready doesn't mean in the conference before OU/UT leave although there is no reason you couldn't. If you reach 2025 with nothing done as some seem to want, and just hoping for an invite that is not assured or even likely, then you will have put us in place to do nothing but grasp at any open option probably the MWC or AAC.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Realizing most every school would most likely prefer to move to one of the existing P4 conferences, I think the option of B12 expansion will have to approached with the idea that some or none of the schools will be moving on, thus requiring a process that both identifies the best expansion possibilities but also allows schools to seek a better deal without prejudice.

Here's my guess on how it's probably going to work (or something similar), in chronological order.

The Conference will gather data on all the prospective expansion teams and discuss with various media providers potential new media deals and values, thus determining the optimal teams and numbers to add.

The Conference will then set a date (probably some date around the expected date of a new PAC media deal) to send out invitations to new teams. This may be public announcement to allow potential new teams time to work out their own tentative exit plans, or it may be just an internal B12 communication, or something in-between.

Conference teams will then have a window (after the above mentioned announcement and prior to the invitation date) to either decide to stay with the B12, or explore other potential homes with other conferences. The other P4 conferences will then have to decide, prior to the B12 invitation date, to either invite certain B12 teams to their conference, or essentially pass on B12 teams for good.

Depending on the number of existing B12 teams to stay, the Conference will then formally invite the number of select new schools to fill the optimal conference size with play to begin in 2025.

The B12 then enters into a definitive new media deal effective with the 2025 season.

Now I'm sure some of you will poo-poo the whole idea, but until someone in this world presents a more logical process, I'm sticking with this as my expectation.

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So you're basically stating that everything Cali & I have said is true, but for some reason you have to attack us because you're the only person allowed to have an opinion on what should be done?

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NJAggie said:

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If they are hopefully OSU isn't so KU can't sign the death certificate for the Big XII and get us all farmed out to the MWC & AAC.

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

what does that mean?

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NJAggie said:

Well if KU or any of the schools finds a way to stop any planning for life after OU/UT leave as some want, then the conference is dead on 2025 when OU/UT leave. You can't wait until there is no expansion and no TV deal. You have to make plans to have teams ready to go when OU/UT exit, and before you can negotiate a new TV deal.

Having people ready doesn't mean in the conference before OU/UT leave although there is no reason you couldn't. If you reach 2025 with nothing done as some seem to want, and just hoping for an invite that is not assured or even likely, then you will have put us in place to do nothing but grasp at any open option probably the MWC or AAC.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Realizing most every school would most likely prefer to move to one of the existing P4 conferences, I think the option of B12 expansion will have to approached with the idea that some or none of the schools will be moving on, thus requiring a process that both identifies the best expansion possibilities but also allows schools to seek a better deal without prejudice.

Here's my guess on how it's probably going to work (or something similar), in chronological order.

The Conference will gather data on all the prospective expansion teams and discuss with various media providers potential new media deals and values, thus determining the optimal teams and numbers to add.

The Conference will then set a date (probably some date around the expected date of a new PAC media deal) to send out invitations to new teams. This may be public announcement to allow potential new teams time to work out their own tentative exit plans, or it may be just an internal B12 communication, or something in-between.

Conference teams will then have a window (after the above mentioned announcement and prior to the invitation date) to either decide to stay with the B12, or explore other potential homes with other conferences. The other P4 conferences will then have to decide, prior to the B12 invitation date, to either invite certain B12 teams to their conference, or essentially pass on B12 teams for good.

Depending on the number of existing B12 teams to stay, the Conference will then formally invite the number of select new schools to fill the optimal conference size with play to begin in 2025.

The B12 then enters into a definitive new media deal effective with the 2025 season.

Now I'm sure some of you will poo-poo the whole idea, but until someone in this world presents a more logical process, I'm sticking with this as my expectation.

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NJAggie said:

So you're basically stating that everything Cali & I have said is true, but for some reason you have to attack us because you're the only person allowed to have an opinion on what should be done?

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That would be incorrect.

Gumby All I can say is Thanks.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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Realizing most every school would most likely prefer to move to one of the existing P4 conferences, I think the option of B12 expansion will have to approached with the idea that some or none of the schools will be moving on, thus requiring a process that both identifies the best expansion possibilities but also allows schools to seek a better deal without prejudice.

Here's my guess on how it's probably going to work (or something similar), in chronological order.

The Conference will gather data on all the prospective expansion teams and discuss with various media providers potential new media deals and values, thus determining the optimal teams and numbers to add.

The Conference will then set a date (probably some date around the expected date of a new PAC media deal) to send out invitations to new teams. This may be public announcement to allow potential new teams time to work out their own tentative exit plans, or it may be just an internal B12 communication, or something in-between.

Conference teams will then have a window (after the above mentioned announcement and prior to the invitation date) to either decide to stay with the B12, or explore other potential homes with other conferences. The other P4 conferences will then have to decide, prior to the B12 invitation date, to either invite certain B12 teams to their conference, or essentially pass on B12 teams for good.

Depending on the number of existing B12 teams to stay, the Conference will then formally invite the number of select new schools to fill the optimal conference size with play to begin in 2025.

The B12 then enters into a definitive new media deal effective with the 2025 season.

Now I'm sure some of you will poo-poo the whole idea, but until someone in this world presents a more logical process, I'm sticking with this as my expectation.

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NJAggie said:

So you're basically stating that everything Cali & I have said is true, but for some reason you have to attack us because you're the only person allowed to have an opinion on what should be done?

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yep NJ.... same exact thing we've been saying all along, perhaps put a bit more succinctly.

I believe there is a lot more wiggle room for possibilities in that middle paragraph (about the Conference teams having a window to decide). I think there will likely be more like a line drawn in the sand at a certain point, like if the PAC renegotiates their contract without expansion teams.... I think it will be more abrupt than Gumby is suggesting, but his scenario is certainly a possibility. The teams all have to commit in relatively short order for a new B12 contract to be negotiated. Those teams need to have made some sort of verbal agreement to possibly join, BEFORE offers come (or don't come) from the P4 conferences. How can you weigh options if you don't actually have multiple options to compare?

I suppose we'll find out soon enough. My best guess is that action will start to happen after this football season ends.

I agree. I know some are thinking bids were going out last week, but yeah it'll be post football at the earliest. and any real movement would be next year at earliest. A lot will depend on whether we're going to play ball with OU/UT on an early exit. Which IF we get good things from the SEC, then that makes a lot of sense to do. But bringing BYU in the fold by even next year might make sense, as then an unexpected early departure by OU/UT would be something we could cover at 9 teams, but impossible at 8.

Apparently we have posters that can't distinguish between what's been suggested the conference should pursue, and what's been suggested individual schools should pursue.