NCAA Responds to Oklahoma State Comments on Infractions Committee

Coach B didn't ask people to threaten anyone on the panel. Making that connection is a stretch by the NCAA and they know it. They sound like they think having people contact them directly is an overreach. I guess they know how our players feel now.

NCAA = FUBAR = NEEDS TO BE REPLACED AND THAT CANNOT COME SOON ENOUGH. FOR ALL THOSE NCAA PARTICIPANTS IN THIS FIASCO SHOULD GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN IF THEY CANNOT TAKE THE HEAT. DEATH THREATS? THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT, IF IT HAPPENED, AND THOSE SHOULD BE TURNED OVER TO LAW ENFORCEMENT. LET US SEE OR HEAR....PUT UP OR SHUT UP BECAUSE THE NCAA HAS ZERO CREDIBILITY.

The committee is referring to OSU coach and AD warning other schools to be careful about what information they share with the NCAA during an investigation. In other words, if the NCAA investigation does not find an infraction, do not disclose an infraction that you, the school, are aware of. Cooperation like that with the NCAA will not result in leniency, it will punish the school instead.
Because the administration and coach did not just lie down and roll over after the NCAA ruling, but instead barked at the committee, the NCAA is now going to retaliate and probably has already formed a committee to see what penalty they can impose against OSU for those comments. It's like watching Judge Judy tell a defendant to shut up and if they keep talking the Judge will charge them with contempt of court.
I did think it very risky for OSU staff to have encouraged other schools to not fully cooperate with an NCAA investigation. I could hardly believe that was said in public. We are now even more on the NCAA **** list. They will be looking at us under microscope now since we are on probation. There will be spies on campus, etc. Sports Illustrated must be loving this black mark against OSU.

NCAA doesn't appreciate being called out for investigations that lead to bogus penalties. On top of that OSU literally called them out and their panties are in a wad. Good for OSU because I can't find an analyst or NCAAB expert (outside of ignorant Phil Forte) who agrees with their decision.

my sentiments exactly.... OSU was totally out of line.

I already presented the only real issue, and NOBODY on this site responded in any manner.

The NCAA made their decision, it seemed in line with regulations, and it was upheld by the appeal panel.

OSU was out of line making attacks on that organization, and if they had any disagreements, then it should have taken the form of litigation, not childish name calling and wanton ranting.

I was embarrassed by the response of the President and the Head Coach. I am still embarrassed, and I hope they make amends.

It doesn't matter how much the NCAA bloviates, the bottom line is what will the penalties against Kansas look like when compared to OSU, if they skate then the NCAA is an illegitimate organization where rules are not applied equally or fairly.

Joe Khatib said:

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It doesn't matter how much the NCAA bloviates, the bottom line is what will the penalties against Kansas look like when compared to OSU, if they skate then the NCAA is an illegitimate organization where rules are not applied equally or fairly.

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and if KU is punished worse, then statements like these were premature and childish.

The NCAA has no viable response to the complaints lodged against the process and results of their investigation, so they divert attention away from their lack of due process and fairness to focus on having their feeling hurt by those who are unimpressed with their performance.

Ok except South Carolina was already punished less harshly

because, as was explained in multiple reports, because they did less.

Our goofy administration said the infractions "appeared" to be the same, but it was explained on multiple sites, to clearly NOT be the same.

1) it was PRIOR to Evans being at OSU, and it is not clear when the investigation started or what (if anything that they captured on Evans while at USC).

2) The NCAA CLEARLY STATED that they activities of Evans ESCLATED, and involved active SOLITICATION of agents, AND included PAYMENT to a student (Carroll).

It doesn't much matter if Carroll felt bad and repaid the money to somebody (not to Evans). AND... it also said that the money was "dirty money"... I"m not sure what that is, but likely it's federal government fraud money, not some donor greasing the palms of a few players... I'm not sure.

Regardless, the NCAA CLEARLY STATED why the penalties were different.

Either our fans did not bother to read the statements, or they just wanted to vent and express outrage.

The issues at the two schools WERE NOT THE SAME.

One site explained it like this.... it's like the difference of being punished for going 10 miles over the speed limit, versus going 30 miles over the speed limit.... the violations are similar (speeding) but the penalties ARE NOT THE SAME.

OctaviusRex said:

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What does the investigation start time and Lamont Evans doing this prior to being at OSU matter? Especially since OSU had no knowledge of it

Regardless, it's still pretty damn minor with OSU having no knowledge or gaining any competitive advantage. Sure is great that Baylor football got treated better

Also, why is everyone (including those outside of OSU fandom) around the sports world roasting the NCAA then? Its pretty clear that the OU ishment didn't fit the crime.

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can somebody please provide an explanation of what this post says?

I do not understand even one bit if it.

what does the start time matter? BECAUSE the fan/posters are claiming that it matters.

Who is to deicide "competitive advantage"? Evans DID NOT cooperate with the NCAA, so you/we/nobody has any basis for claiming whether anything else occurred that might be considered competitive advantage. It is simply YOUR OPINION that nothing else occured.

And why is anybody claiming that Biden is not incoherent, because those outside the liberal media are not roasting him, so clearly he is the best human ever to walk the earth. give it a freaking rest already.

You're big mad aren't you?

I don't see a single comment here, and most certainly not one from me saying WHEN the investigations started matters.

LOL you're saying no one knows if OSU received a competitive advantage, but it's my opinion that they didn't? Who knows if South Carolina did then? But if it's up to interpretation why is it a level 1 violation on this level?

If you really cannot understand my post, I think that's more of an indictment on you. There's no hidden meaning there.

Nope, must be that everybody else is wrong in saying that the NCAA should be held accountable and CaliforniaCowboy is right

Here is what South Carolina got....
Two years of probation.
A $5,000 fine (self-imposed by the university).
A reduction of men's basketball official visits to 25 during the 2020-21/2021-22 rolling two-year period (self-imposed by the university).
A prohibition of unofficial visits in men's basketball for a total of four weeks during the fall of 2021 and/or 2022 (self-imposed by the university).
A prohibition of men's basketball telephone recruiting for a six-week period during the 2020-21 and/or 2021-22 academic years (self-imposed by the university).
A reduction in the number of men's basketball recruiting person days by 17 during the 2020-21 and/or 2021-22 academic years (self-imposed by the university).
While Lamont Evans was at South Carolina....

2015: According to court documents, Lamont Evans began communication with Christian Dawkins and a cooperating witness. Dawkins tells the cooperating witness that Evans is willing to receive bribes in exchange for steering athletes to the witness's services, according to the court documents. Court documents also state that Dawkins was an employee of a sports management company.

On or around March 3, 2016: Evans, Dawkins and Munish Snood meet in South Carolina to discuss a player Evans could steer toward services of Snood and a cooperating witness.

Lamont Evans was credited with being responsible for South Carolina's run to the Final Four.

OctaviusRex said:

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You're big mad aren't you?

I don't see a single comment here, and most certainly not one from me saying WHEN the investigations started matters.

LOL you're saying no one knows if OSU received a competitive advantage, but it's my opinion that they didn't? Who knows if South Carolina did then? But if it's up to interpretation why is it a level 1 violation on this level?

If you really cannot understand my post, I think that's more of an indictment on you. There's no hidden meaning there.

Nope, must be that everybody else is wrong in saying that the NCAA should be held accountable and CaliforniaCowboy is right

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Dude, I don't want to argue with someone who is basing their position on their personal opinion. good for you.

It's not about me... stop it with the personal attacks. I'm not trying "to be right"... I don't care about any arguments.... only facts.

All of the information that I posted was previously posted by professional journalists... go argue with them, I'm not really interested in your opinions.

Please, lets base all discussion on actual facts, not on your opinions.

These are not my opinions, I only posted factual information previously presented by professional journalists.

saying "can someone explain this post to me" as if I am incapable of further explanation, or as if you need an interpreter to dumb yourself down to my level is very condescending. That's fine, personal attacks aren't necessary, but don't play this high road schtick like I'm hurling insults and you're just presenting facts in a calm, logical manner

CaliforniaCowboy said:

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OctaviusRex said:

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What does the investigation start time and Lamont Evans doing this prior to being at OSU matter? Especially since OSU had no knowledge of it

Regardless, it's still pretty damn minor with OSU having no knowledge or gaining any competitive advantage. Sure is great that Baylor football got treated better

Also, why is everyone (including those outside of OSU fandom) around the sports world roasting the NCAA then? Its pretty clear that the OU ishment didn't fit the crime.

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can somebody please provide an explanation of what this post says?

I do not understand even one bit if it.

what does the start time matter? BECAUSE the fan/posters are claiming that it matters.

Who is to deicide "competitive advantage"? Evans DID NOT cooperate with the NCAA, so you/we/nobody has any basis for claiming whether anything else occurred that might be considered competitive advantage. It is simply YOUR OPINION that nothing else occured.

And why is anybody claiming that Biden is not incoherent, because those outside the liberal media are not roasting him, so clearly he is the best human ever to walk the earth. give it a freaking rest already.

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Keep it up, you're the talk of the message boards.

OctaviusRex said:

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saying "can someone explain this post to me" as if I am incapable of further explanation, or as if you need an interpreter to dumb yourself down to my level is very condescending. That's fine, personal attacks aren't necessary, but don't play this high road schtick like I'm hurling insults and you're just presenting facts in a calm, logical manner

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Don't sweat it. When you give the guy facts, he claims it's opinion then gives you his opinion which he then claims are facts. It allows him to get his jollies by perpetuating arguments.

It's his gig. Will never change.

Let's hope this episode brings about real change in the process in area's such as transparency of the process and expediency in decisions/rulings.

As for the NCAA complaining about OSU's personnel. Who? The President, AD and Coach all work for OSU and their statements have all been published and fully examined so who are they talking about?

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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OctaviusRex said:

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saying "can someone explain this post to me" as if I am incapable of further explanation, or as if you need an interpreter to dumb yourself down to my level is very condescending. That's fine, personal attacks aren't necessary, but don't play this high road schtick like I'm hurling insults and you're just presenting facts in a calm, logical manner

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Don't sweat it. When you give the guy facts, he claims it's opinion then gives you his opinion which he then claims are facts. It allows him to get his jollies by perpetuating arguments.

It's his gig. Will never change.

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Gumby he said directly in his post that it was his opinion.

Mods, why is this guy allowed to continue to come on this board just to stir up trouble and make personal attacks?

That is all he ever does on this board.

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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Keep it up, you're the talk of the message boards.

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I'm here, everyone is welcome and come talk directly with me. Nobody has refuted even one of the facts that I have posted. They're not my facts. It's not even my opinion. I think the ban was inappropriate.

but people do gossip, and other people revel in that gossip stuff

as for "people talking about other people", that is best left to those gossip message boards.

OctaviusRex said:

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saying "can someone explain this post to me" as if I am incapable of further explanation, or as if you need an interpreter to dumb yourself down to my level is very condescending. That's fine, personal attacks aren't necessary, but don't play this high road schtick like I'm hurling insults and you're just presenting facts in a calm, logical manner

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first I consider you to be someone..... if you can explain it then please do.

second, saying that a written post doesn't make much sense to me, is not a personal attack. It is simply a statement that I don't understand what is written.

I'm sorry if you were offended - in the future I'll simply ask if you can explain yourself further.

I hope you have a great day.

CaliforniaCowboy said:

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my sentiments exactly.... OSU was totally out of line.

I already presented the only real issue, and NOBODY on this site responded in any manner.

The NCAA made their decision, it seemed in line with regulations, and it was upheld by the appeal panel.

OSU was out of line making attacks on that organization, and if they had any disagreements, then it should have taken the form of litigation, not childish name calling and wanton ranting.

I was embarrassed by the response of the President and the Head Coach. I am still embarrassed, and I hope they make amends.

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Nobody responded to you because most people ignore your diatribe on every site you've been on.

Osufenceman said:

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Nobody responded to you because most people ignore your diatribe on every site you've been on.

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wink, wink, wink.

ooh, my poor feelings... I'm so crushed

have you even bothered to check my profile? I always have high marks and accolades for my posts, on every board.

but thank you so much for putting me in my place.

so... folks avoided the facts and the articles from others because they don't like me... got cha

good gawd.....

So level with us. Are you Thayer Evans or Pat Forde?

donnieh said:

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So level with us. Are you Thayer Evans or Pat Forde?

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I have said nothing bad about OSU, nor have I accused OSU of anything.

nice attempt at humor though

CaliforniaCowboy said:

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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OctaviusRex said:

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saying "can someone explain this post to me" as if I am incapable of further explanation, or as if you need an interpreter to dumb yourself down to my level is very condescending. That's fine, personal attacks aren't necessary, but don't play this high road schtick like I'm hurling insults and you're just presenting facts in a calm, logical manner

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Don't sweat it. When you give the guy facts, he claims it's opinion then gives you his opinion which he then claims are facts. It allows him to get his jollies by perpetuating arguments.

It's his gig. Will never change.

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Gumby he said directly in his post that it was his opinion.

Mods, why is this guy allowed to continue to come on this board just to stir up trouble and make personal attacks?

That is all he ever does on this board.

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Here's a classic example.

Universally held fact: The actions of Lamont Evans did not result in a competitive advantage for OSU.
Cali's fact: Who's to say if the actions of Lamont Evans resulted in a competitive advantage?

Important context: The ONLY reason for the NCAA rules, investigations and penalties to exist is to insure a school or schools DO NOT enjoy a competitive advantage.

FWIW, I predicted on another board you would almost immediately resort to the "personal attacks" card and call on the mods for discipline. Freakin hilarious.

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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FWIW, I predicted on another board you would almost immediately resort to the "personal attacks" card and call on the mods for discipline. Freakin hilarious.

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and the truth finally emerges.... you're only posting for attention, or so you imply.

Oklahoma State appealed the ruling, with athletic director Mike Holder saying it was an unfair punishment since the NCAA's findings suggested Evans acted alone to cause the infractions, per Frank Bonner II for the Tulsa World.
"I find it almost impossible to reconcile the severe penalties imposed by the NCAA for the violations that were detailed in today's report," Holder said.

"The NCAA agreed that Lamont Evans acted alone and for his own benefit. The NCAA also agreed that OSU did not benefit in recruiting, commit a recruiting violation, did not play an ineligible player and did not display a lack of institutional control."

donnieh said:

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Oklahoma State appealed the ruling, with athletic director Mike Holder saying it was an unfair punishment since the NCAA's findings suggested Evans acted alone to cause the infractions, per Frank Bonner II for the Tulsa World.
"I find it almost impossible to reconcile the severe penalties imposed by the NCAA for the violations that were detailed in today's report," Holder said.

"The NCAA agreed that Lamont Evans acted alone and for his own benefit. The NCAA also agreed that OSU did not benefit in recruiting, commit a recruiting violation, did not play an ineligible player and did not display a lack of institutional control."

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everybody already knows all of that... everybody including me. no need to keep repeating the same things.

let's talk for a minute about what is not being said, which is reportedly the predominate reason why they went with a post season ban.

1) Evans actions were escalating (from being approached at SC, to active solicitation at OSU, and payment to a player), and 2) He refused to cooperate with the NCAA.

Many people (including me) don't believe those are sufficient reason for a ban, but the NCAA and the appeals committee did think so.

Agree with the premise presented by them or don't agree, it remains that the NCAA must have the capability to enforce participation and cooperation.

Was a ban too harsh of a penalty for Evans refusal to participate.... I don't know. It seems like it is, but I can't come up with another penalty that would establish their intent to enforce cooperation.

donnieh said:

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"The NCAA agreed that Lamont Evans acted alone and for his own benefit. The NCAA also agreed that OSU did not benefit in recruiting, commit a recruiting violation, did not play an ineligible player and did not display a lack of institutional control."

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The NCAA said its appeals committee agreed with an initial ruling that the school is still responsible because of the severity of the violation and upheld all the penalties, which also include a reduction of three scholarships and a fine of about $700,000 (10% of OSU's men's basketball budget).

"Specifically, the (initial) panel noted that a member school is responsible for its staff members, and when a staff member commits a violation while employed by the school, both the individual and the school are responsible for the violation," the NCAA said in a statement.

The NCAA upheld classification of Oklahoma State's as Level I-standard for the school and Level I-aggravated for Evans. That's what Arizona likely is hoping to have happen with its case, since a Level I aggravated against the school could result in a 2-5 year postseason ban. Arizona already self-imposed a ban for the 2020-21 season, signaling it expected to at least be facing a Level I-standard penalty of a one-year ban.

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/pascoe/oklahoma-states-ncaa-appeal-fails-case-included-key-parallel-to-arizonas-infractions-case/article_7185b06a-3ce1-11ec-83c9-7b7b9ff7a4b8.html