Update: Big 12 Still at 12, 14, or Even Bigger? Yormark is in Motion

so you are saying a sleep deprived rookie commissioner is going to rush into something?

that sounds like a complete recipe for disaster.

And as OSU is concerned, rookie President and rookie AD!!

The SEC and Big 10 are smart enough to keep a lesser but bigger number of schools in a third conference around.

Give the third conference a lesser number of shots at the 12 team playoff, and keep one eye of all third conference fans on the SEC and Big 10 while you beat the Hell out of them . CHA CHING - CHA CHINH !!!!!!!!

All the members of a 20 or 22 team PAC/ Big 12 can live with less money than the big boys. They always have!!! "Little Brother" schools budgets have always been half that of the Blue Bloods..

The BiG 10 and SEC can divide up the ACC if they want in a few years when contracts run down.

Process of putting words in someone's mouth is alive and well!! Robert didn't say that all.

Sounds more and more like we are stuck in Big 12 for a while. Neither BIG nor the SEC wants us.

Osumayor said:

---

Process of putting words in someone's mouth is alive and well!! Robert didn't say that all.

---

I'm 100% positive that is what he said, whether he intended to or not.

what part of it did he not say? He is a rookie (not even officially on the clock), Robert said he gets very little sleep each night, and that he is rushing to make a deal. What part did I put in his mouth that he didn't say?

That sounds like exactly where we need to be. Not sure of the guy that posted about the bod meeting but Keatonitreal was posting that OSU to SEC stuff all day yesterday and I guess he finally got a few takers.

We're more likely to here from the PAC and/or ACC than SEC at this point.

In a fight, it is usually better to get the first punch in.....glad he is active and aggressive. The Big 12 has been the punching bag too often and that is why it is in this position scrambling for relevance again. Don't let the PAC 12 pick off Big 12 teams. It is time to punch them first. Now, if OSU gets a midnight call from the SEC, be there at dawn. GO POKES!!!

Oakley2100 said:

---

Can't be worse than old ADs and presidents sitting on their asses for years. That is how we got here.

---

actually, it can actually be worse....

it's one of those be careful what you ask for, you might get it, scenarios.

I agree with you on several things, but I just can't on this. It's an expand or be diluted time right now between pac 12 and big 12. The B1G and SEC are the only ones that have the luxury of waiting. The acc does to an extent because of the GOR lasting for an eternity. However, I think that crumbles long before 2036. And I'm asking because I honestly don't know, but is there anything to prevent Cincy, WV, or UCF from jumping ship to ACC?

Who is Keatonitreal? If I spelled it right!

Rushing into something doesn't mean he's not going to do his do diligence. But you snooze you will lose. New blood is what the big 12 needed. If he doesn't do anything relatively fast the big 12 could end up being big notta.

They have to come to the Big 12. But it doesn't mean they can't try to leave. It would just cost them money. The teams that are coming to the Big 12 are more suited for our conference.

I wouldn't want to go to the SEC. There going to be cream of the crop here. In the SEC they will be middle of the road.

Big 12 expanding and osu staying is the only scenario that we stay relevant. We could continue to compete in a new big 12. Sec and more money won't help us raise our profile. We will make a ton more money but we will still be seen as inferior to recruits and national pundits. A better conference doesn't make Stillwater more appealing. We can do what we have been and survive but we can't go sec or big ten and make it out alive. I am fairly confident that even with the money it would hurt osu in the long run. We could fall into the basement in a big conference. Playing in a "weaker conference" is our only hope to gain anymore credibility as a national power. Osu simply is just not there yet. All the same problems we have now could just be even more magnified if we somehow went sec

He's an OSU poster. I think he was a football player recently. He didn't do anything bad, he just kept posting OSU has been offered by the SEC, or something like that all day. Someone picked up on it and actually had a tweet getting traction asking if the Big XII was meeting to discuss the move.

I totally agree with what you said. Last year was the best opportunity for OSU to win it all since I think 2011. We should have played for it all back then even with the Iowa st lose. They shouldn't have even played the game til at least sat. Having to play it on Fri night (all about the money) after that plane crash wasn't right. I truly think with the offence we had we could of hung with Alabama. Last year is all on sanders and the last 3 play calling

Nothing hard on this, but it does seem the FOX vs ESPN thing is bleeding down into the Big XII vs PAC/ACC. We could very well be looking at FOX bidding for the Big XII package and ESPN putting their money on this alliance idea. FOX doesn't seem to have any interest in the PAC, and ESPN seems to have little to no interest in us.

The 4 Corners schools seem like they want to come, but are hesitant until they here some of the media money on the PAC side. This is from the same guy from Tucson that broke the Tuesday meeting story. I think Arizona and Colorado are the most eager to come over with ASU & Utah having the reservations. Which makes sense because UA & CU are #5 & 6 out of the group. UA has been eyeing the Big XII and getting into Texas recruiting for some time. ASU is more tied to CA with lots of CA students and people that moved from CA to Phoenix. Sounds like Utah doesn't want to have to be saved by coming to the conference BYU is in. CU is scared of winding up in the MWC.

For sure. To add to that point we competed last year and 2011. Both seasons we had forces that normally do not happen. Blackmon emerged of course but we had a 27 year old qb. Last season we had super seniors on a historic defense. It's not often things are gonna fall in our favor like those seasons. We aren't the best in the big 12 now we are just a solid program these days and have earned respect over the years but osu is still not ready for the big time. Hopefully the big 12 gets stronger and osu can improve. The next few years are crucial to show our best days haven't happened. Gundy and co can't coach forever so we need to turn the corner soon

Maybe splitting hairs, but I think OSU IS big time already. What we lack is big time fan and media support. We have neither. We can't sell out an average sized stadium and certainly can't get 90%+ on a season ticket basis. We have more mellow and financially prudent fans than an OU or even likely ISU or KSU. Maybe I'm wrong and I haven't pulled up seat sales stats, but their fans are rabid and pay and show up it seems. And for whatever reason, other than a little fascination with Miles and now moreso with Gundy, the media never seems to give OSU the credit they do earn. Therefore, in the end, I agree. The Big XII probably gives OSU a better chance to compete and stand out than the SEC would "Even If" they had an interest in OSU. And really, to me, ESPN, FOX, the SEC and Big 10 are setting up a NIL/Blueblood lock up for future playoffs and brand.....to the extent they can control the market. The OSU's, Arkansas's, Missouri's, Iowa's and Indiana's won't have good times in those playgrounds IMO.

I agree with a lot of that. I think for osu to get the support we need to prove it for once. We have knocked on the door but we gotta turn that corner. Give them something to believe in. Something actually convincing because so far even our biggest moments have kinda meant squat to the outside world. The world we live in as osu fans is vastly different than what the rest of the world thinks. Not that I can literally speak for everyone but you get the point

Here's Joe Klatt's take.

https://www.buffzone.com/2022/07/06/former-cu-buffs-qb-joel-klatt-i-think-colorado-ends-up-in-big-12/

Here's my outside the box pitch for a new B12 and a third Super Conference.

Pitch the addition of Oregon, Washington, OU and Texas to Fox. If it would bring SEC kinda money, maybe OU and Texas would reconsider.

Yeah, I know. It tastes bad and very unlikely. But who knows?

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

---

Here's my outside the box pitch for a new B12 and a third Super Conference.

Pitch the addition of Oregon, Washington, OU and Texas to Fox. If it would bring SEC kinda money, maybe OU and Texas would reconsider.

Yeah, I know. It tastes bad and very unlikely. But who knows?

---

The last report was that the P12 had opened a 30 day "exclusive" negotiating window with Fox and ESPN, after that time period (if they got nothing acceptable) they would open the negotiations to other bids from Amazon, etc.

personally, I don't expect any "deals" or announcements about teams moving until after those negotiations. I suppose there could be some "tentative" agreements that hinge upon the outcome of those negotiations, but it doesn't make any sense for the remaining 10 PAC schools to make any decisions until they determine their relative worth.

Yeah, I'd think such a deal might be possible, and they could do it as they'd just have to pay. Frankly I'm surprised UT isn't trying to get in the B1G, as that's now the biggest paycheck.

Well, they opened negotiations and contractually ESPN & FOX have a 30 day window to negotiate a new deal with them before they can take it to market. All indications are that FOX has passed, and that ESPN is not offering any strong contract, as they're pushing this "loose alliance" thing rather than coming in with hard numbers.

One of the problems being discussed in the PAC world is the other schools are getting frustrated because Oregon & Washington won't commit enough to have serious negotiations as they're still working on begging their way in to the B1G. So again all they get is newspaper click bait from ESPN and not serious offers.

If you want to see why FOX is seeming to back the Big XII and pull out of the PAC, just read Guerin Emig's piece on OSU's TV numbers for 2021. OSU's games beat every big PAC game including UCLA/USC last year. The numbers for BU; TCU, & WVU were all close as well.

The B12 has good TV numbers. The PAC doesn't. While both schools are loosing their biggest brands the PAC is also loosing its biggest market. The B12 didn't lose TX, it's still there and will still be watching B12 football in 2025. In 2024 LA's few TV viewers are going to be watching B1G not PAC games. So PAC schools coming to the B12 should have more viewers than if they stayed in the PAC. Also as Scheer the UA writer said it last week, being in a league where the games start at 9am, and you have lead in all day for the late games is going to build interest. Right now people drift away waiting for the games to start. So it could increase interest in the games in their home markets.

Fox has already stated they are not interested in a new PAC deal, so they're out. Doubt ESPN will be interested either.

oh gawd.. not the "look at the TV numbers" argument again.... sigh.

those B12 TV numbers are with OU and UT in the league, which raises up everybody's numbers, because of the playoff. Those numbers mean only a fraction of what you are suggesting they mean, until the playoff picture gets resolved.

We won't know squat until then.

Unless you can break down those numbers and discern WHO is watching and WHY, then they aren't worth much, most likely folks watch because we usually have the best chance of knocking off OU for the playoff chase. Without the status of the existing B12, those eyes will not be tuning in to see if we can knock off Cincy, or whether Baylor wins the conference for the next 10 years.

Again you're not even making any sense. The TV numbers are what they are, and OU UT do not drive all the numbers. Go read the article. OSU vs Texas Tech outdrew USC vs UCLA. The Big XII championship game with OSU vs BU had more viewers than the PAC & ACC CCGS COMBINED.

So how UT & OU caused that to happen, please let me know.

It now looks like ESPN's offer is to put PACnet games on the ACCnet, and if that winds up driving any adds for the ACCnet the PAC gets a cut. So the ESPN offering looking mighty token.

CaliforniaCowboy said:

---

oh gawd.. not the "look at the TV numbers" argument again.... sigh.

those B12 TV numbers are with OU and UT in the league, which raises up everybody's numbers, because of the playoff. Those numbers mean only a fraction of what you are suggesting they mean, until the playoff picture gets resolved.

We won't know squat until then.

Unless you can break down those numbers and discern WHO is watching and WHY, then they aren't worth much, most likely folks watch because we usually have the best chance of knocking off OU for the playoff chase. Without the status of the existing B12, those eyes will not be tuning in to see if we can knock off Cincy, or whether Baylor wins the conference for the next 10 years.

---

Yes the tv numbers. OSU numbers were essentially the same as aTm (with a much larger fanbase) having games with Alabama, LSU, Auburn and whomever they played from the SEC East.

As NJ stated, the numbers are what they are. Every school's numbers include games with highly viewed schools.

NJAggie said:

---

Again you're not even making any sense. The TV numbers are what they are, and OU UT do not drive all the numbers. Go read the article. OSU vs Texas Tech outdrew USC vs UCLA. The Big XII championship game with OSU vs BU had more viewers than the PAC & ACC CCGS COMBINED.

So how UT & OU caused that to happen, please let me know.

---

Again I am making perfect sense, you are looking backwards at the numbers, and I am looking forward.

games played in the past had different significance than the B12 games that will be played in the future (every paltry contract that has been suggested implies that)

the B12 Champ game garnered so much attention because of it's potential impact on the playoff and the other teams vying for a slot. You should bet your last dollar that the eyes were watching to see OSU lose, not because OSU was in the game. If OSU wins, then Cincy or ND, or one of the other yahoo teams might not get in. Lots of teams were hoping to get in over Cincy and ND, and it all hinged on an OSU loss.

this stuff is really not that hard

So you're saying that without OU & UT in the conference no OSU game will matter or have any draw whatsoever.

That really is a very bad way to view things. The games OSU play in will continue to matter, and draw eyeballs no matter what you believe.

CaliforniaCowboy said:

---

NJAggie said:

---

Again you're not even making any sense. The TV numbers are what they are, and OU UT do not drive all the numbers. Go read the article. OSU vs Texas Tech outdrew USC vs UCLA. The Big XII championship game with OSU vs BU had more viewers than the PAC & ACC CCGS COMBINED.

So how UT & OU caused that to happen, please let me know.

---

Again I am making perfect sense, you are looking backwards at the numbers, and I am looking forward.

games played in the past had different significance than the B12 games that will be played in the future (every paltry contract that has been suggested implies that)

the B12 Champ game garnered so much attention because of it's potential impact on the playoff and the other teams vying for a slot. You should bet your last dollar that the eyes were watching to see OSU lose, not because OSU was in the game. If OSU wins, then Cincy or ND, or one of the other yahoo teams might not get in. Lots of teams were hoping to get in over Cincy and ND, and it all hinged on an OSU loss.

this stuff is really not that hard

---

So, you want to look forward. Great!

Give us a top-20 ranking of viewership for 2022, or 2023, or year of your choice.

how about pac 12 adding boise st and S.D. aztecs, partnering with big 12, split both conf. in north-south divisions and have four six team pods.
Play all five home pod teams and one from the other 3 based on rankings (records} from previous years. have a home and home then schedule next two years based on that year ranking,1-6 in each pod. Example- OK st. play oregon, byu, and sun devils. Great ratings and we could still have an OU to trash talk. We could trade notes with other OSU. More even talented games would help ratings, even a cal vs. ku game compared to a Bama-Vanderbilt. Like a line from a movie- you may not like it buddy, but it's the only shot you "got"