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Oklahoma State Football

Flores Deserved Better Ratings (Stars) Than He Got, Now it's Happening, Sort of

February 7, 2023
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STILLWATER – Lets call this a rant story. Every so often every writer deserves a rant story. I’ve been talking until I’m blue in the face for close to a year that Gretna High School quarterback and now OKlahoma State freshman Zane Flores is not a three-star quarterback. From the day I first head of Flores as Oklahoma State began recruiting and offered the 6-3, 190-pound junior that had led his team to the Class A State Championship (largest class) only to have taken away because of the use of an ineligible player, I was impressed. Flores made a spring official visit to Stillwater and shortly after committed to the Cowboys. 

Robert Allen - Pokes Report
Flores was always impressive when I saw him throw including this camp in Stillwater.

The more you saw, the more schools like Ohio State, Notre Dame, and homestate Nebraska doubled down on offering him, and then a better than average performance at Elite 11 quarterback competition made me think Flores is going to climb above the three-star status. 

Despite the senior season that saw him throw for 3,117 yards and 31 touchdowns and rush for 274 yards and 10 scores. He took his team back to the Nebraska Class A State Championship and despite throwing for 414-yards and three touchdowns in the game they lost on a last play 45-yard field goal 43-41. Flores, holding the all-time Nebraska prep records for any class with passing yards (9,163) and completed passes (724); and the all-time 11-man touchown passes record (82) breaking Scott Frost’s old record of 67; was also the Gatorade and MaxPrep Player of the Year in Nebraska.  

What’s a guy got to do to get a fourth star? 

Robert Allen - Pokes Report
Flores (right with his back to the camera has made a good transition to training at Oklahoma State.

It doesn’t matter now. The Oklahoma State strength and condiditoning coaches as a group say Flores has come in and displayed terrific work ethic, leadership, and explosive athletic skills. Flores is now in a world where stars don’t matter. Quarterback coach Tim Rattay loved what he saw when he brought Flores to the attention of offensive coordinator Kasey Dunn and head coach Mike Gundy. 

This past week The Athletic had their ace college recruiting writer Ari Wasserman and three other reporters with Big 12 backgrounds analyze the winners and top players in the Big 12 2023 recruiting class

One question was which quarterback besides Texas freshman and five-star Arch Manning could you see earning a start in the Big 12 as a freshman in the 2023 season? Max Olson had an interesting answer.

“There are a couple interesting candidates beyond Texas and Oklahoma this year,” Max Olson wrote in starting his answer. “Three-star signee Zane Flores is walking into a potentially ideal situation at Oklahoma State with a young QB room (Garret Rangel, Gunnar Gundy) that added grad transfer Alan Bowman, who hasn’t started a game since 2020. I’ll be curious to see if he can put himself in position to play early there.

Then the question was asked what non blue-chip (four or five-star) player do you most like in this 2023 recruiting class? Here is where Ari Wasserman chimed in.

“Zane Flores is a prospect who has piqued my interest for a while now,” Wasserman wrote somewhat suggesting he agreed that Flores should have had another star next to his name. “Though I’m not sure he’ll be ready to start for the Cowboys in Year 1 — though weirder things have happened — he is the type of prospect who could make those who passed on him regret it, namely Nebraska. He has the traits to develop into a big-time stud, and he accounted for more than 3,000 yards and 31 touchdowns through the air and added 10 rushing touchdowns in his senior season. The Big 12 is known for star quarterbacks who came out of nowhere. Flores could be another one.”

Finally, this Sunday there will be two Big 12 quarterbacks starting in Super Bowl LVII with Jalen Hurts of the Eagles and former Texas Tech quarterback Patrick Mahomes for the Chiefs. Mahomes, playing at Whitehouse High School in East Texas had similar numbers and a similar skill set to Flores. I’m not saying Flores will turn out to be just like Mahomes. It’d be nice. 

I’m just pointing out in my rant story that Mahomes was slighted similar to Flores for his high school ability and aomplishments. His high school coach Adam Cook documented his opinion for the Ari Timpkin and former Iowa State and NFL quarterback Dave Archer on Sirius-XM’s Big 12 This Morning. 

Whitehouse High School
Mahomes on sidelines with Coach Aadm Cook (on headsets).

“The three schools that ended up offering him were Houston, North Texas, and, if course, Texas Tech,” Cook then the head coach and athletic director at Whitehouse, said for SXM. “Eevery coach that came in was impressed with Patrick when they got to see him and met with him. But everybody was like, do we take a chance on this guy because he’s a three-star. You know I’ve made comments on how the star guy needed to get fired. It is really all in fun because the coach in me believes everybody needs that star guy to keep you in check and motivate you, so it’s like I’m talking out of both sides of my mouth.”

I appreciate Cook’s thought. Flores has never spoke of his prep prospect rating, and I don’t think he ever would. I do hope he will always keep it in mind. I like the motivational angle to it. 

Discussion from...

Flores Deserved Better Ratings (Stars) Than He Got, Now it's Happening, Sort of

12,553 Views | 43 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Joe Khatib
PokeSmot75
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Its the EXACT same concept as relying on stars to determine the quality of a recruit. You're relying on someone else's evaluation of talent instead of our coaches.

I have no issue with anyone that wants the team to be better, who doesn't? It's totally fair to say something like - "A year after we were 1 inch short and/or a healthy RB shy of a B12 Championship and CFP appearance, the 2022 Cowboys playing with a ton of injuries and inexperience underperformed because of below average coaching and/or below average recruiting in the previous one or two cycles. If the issue is mostly below average recruiting, let's hope the current class turns out better than the collective "stars" might indicate."

That would be a fair take instead of just declaring this class a disaster.


OMG. Or maybe, just maybe, there is a reason virtually no other Power 5 schools offered these guys. Look, I hope they are all successful and OSU wins the next 5 Big 12 championships. I'm still waiting for you to provide some examples where teams ranked in the 50s in recruiting rankings are competing for championships on a regular basis.
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Its the EXACT same concept as relying on stars to determine the quality of a recruit. You're relying on someone else's evaluation of talent instead of our coaches.

I have no issue with anyone that wants the team to be better, who doesn't? It's totally fair to say something like - "A year after we were 1 inch short and/or a healthy RB shy of a B12 Championship and CFP appearance, the 2022 Cowboys playing with a ton of injuries and inexperience underperformed because of below average coaching and/or below average recruiting in the previous one or two cycles. If the issue is mostly below average recruiting, let's hope the current class turns out better than the collective "stars" might indicate."

That would be a fair take instead of just declaring this class a disaster.


OMG. Or maybe, just maybe, there is a reason virtually no other Power 5 schools offered these guys. Look, I hope they are all successful and OSU wins the next 5 Big 12 championships. I'm still waiting for you to provide some examples where teams ranked in the 50s in recruiting rankings are competing for championships on a regular basis.


Like I said, you're only focused on stars and rankings.

Oh, BTW, last year TCUs class was ranked 45 and KSU was ranked 63.

I guess we're done here, huh?
PokeSmot75
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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Its the EXACT same concept as relying on stars to determine the quality of a recruit. You're relying on someone else's evaluation of talent instead of our coaches.

I have no issue with anyone that wants the team to be better, who doesn't? It's totally fair to say something like - "A year after we were 1 inch short and/or a healthy RB shy of a B12 Championship and CFP appearance, the 2022 Cowboys playing with a ton of injuries and inexperience underperformed because of below average coaching and/or below average recruiting in the previous one or two cycles. If the issue is mostly below average recruiting, let's hope the current class turns out better than the collective "stars" might indicate."

That would be a fair take instead of just declaring this class a disaster.


OMG. Or maybe, just maybe, there is a reason virtually no other Power 5 schools offered these guys. Look, I hope they are all successful and OSU wins the next 5 Big 12 championships. I'm still waiting for you to provide some examples where teams ranked in the 50s in recruiting rankings are competing for championships on a regular basis.


Like I said, you're only focused on stars and rankings.

Oh, BTW, last year TCUs class was ranked 45 and KSU was ranked 63.

I guess we're done here, huh?


Hence the phrase "on a regular basis"…and TCUs last 3-4 classes before that were significantly higher. And you did see what Bama and Georgia and their "stars" did to them right? But yes I'm done arguing with you….can't help the helpless.
OT
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Love the banter.

Not sure I saw a single mention of the QB on the roster that tossed for 9,300 yards, 101 TDs, and 18 Ints in HS. Seemingly a legit 4 star that won bunches of game in DFW 5A. All in just 3 years.

Meanwhile everyone is thinking Flores - awesome young man - is going to magically unseat the highly intelligent, emotionally rock solid, legit 4 Star that's be in the system for 12 months.

Or that Bowman has the job sewn up. Perhaps the Zone Blocking at Michigan will give him a boost.

Net result here is that if a kid commits to Oklahoma State early, it likely costs him half to a full Star compared to shucking and jiving the recruiting game.

backphil
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gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! . . . I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
You've already proven your point, with objective evidence which Robert could not objectively refute, hence his opinion does not matter. He is a homer anyway and lives off the crumbs that fall from Mike Gundy's sizeable table, so he is certainly not going to risk the consequence of putting any comment, that Mike would judge as derogative, in a public forum. (Look how Mike threatened the lively hood of that Marshall kid from Pistols Firing for asking about coaching changes after the bowl game debacle.)

I have simply come to the conclusion that Mike is too comfortable, too secure and too hard-headed to make any changes to the program and is laughing all the way to the bank. It is up to the University President and the Athletic Director to do the heavy lifting and carry the water for change, if there is to be any.

I am a 1980 grad of the university, so I am old and cranky now. I finally decided to give up my season tickets and just watch the games casually. I can no longer accept mediocrity after all that Mr. Pickens did for the potential of Cowboys football, which the powers that be are allowing to slip away.
Class 1980
GumbyFromPokeyLand
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backphil said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! . . . I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
You've already proven your point, with objective evidence which Robert could not objectively refute, hence his opinion does not matter. He is a homer anyway and lives off the crumbs that fall from Mike Gundy's sizeable table, so he is certainly not going to risk the consequence of putting any comment, that Mike would judge as derogative, in a public forum. (Look how Mike threatened the lively hood of that Marshall kid from Pistols Firing for asking about coaching changes after the bowl game debacle.)

I have simply come to the conclusion that Mike is too comfortable, too secure and too hard-headed to make any changes to the program and is laughing all the way to the bank. It is up to the University President and the Athletic Director to do the heavy lifting and carry the water for change, if there is to be any.

I am a 1980 grad of the university, so I am old and cranky now. I finally decided to give up my season tickets and just watch the games casually. I can no longer accept mediocrity after all that Mr. Pickens did for the potential of Cowboys football, which the powers that be are allowing to slip away.


Absolutely fantastic. Very happy I can't hear you complain from the stands. With an attitude like that, you certainly deserve your misery.
Joe Khatib
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

backphil said:

gary121853 said:

RA, A nice read/story! . . . I dont care about the debate on stars ....what i care about is either recruit or evaluate and develop better players and more depth that translates into MORE championships than 1 in 23 years!

What is NOT debatable IMO is that the current recruiting, evaluating and developing performance is NOT sufficient to produce championships.

That is my opinion ..... what is your opinion RA? Not your opinion on a single player ....(which i value) ...rather, can the program recruit, evaluate and develop players at a VOLUME (not isolated single recruits that exceed expectations) to produce championships .... the last 23 years of data would say otherwise ....
You've already proven your point, with objective evidence which Robert could not objectively refute, hence his opinion does not matter. He is a homer anyway and lives off the crumbs that fall from Mike Gundy's sizeable table, so he is certainly not going to risk the consequence of putting any comment, that Mike would judge as derogative, in a public forum. (Look how Mike threatened the lively hood of that Marshall kid from Pistols Firing for asking about coaching changes after the bowl game debacle.)

I have simply come to the conclusion that Mike is too comfortable, too secure and too hard-headed to make any changes to the program and is laughing all the way to the bank. It is up to the University President and the Athletic Director to do the heavy lifting and carry the water for change, if there is to be any.

I am a 1980 grad of the university, so I am old and cranky now. I finally decided to give up my season tickets and just watch the games casually. I can no longer accept mediocrity after all that Mr. Pickens did for the potential of Cowboys football, which the powers that be are allowing to slip away.


Absolutely fantastic. Very happy I can't hear you complain from the stands. With an attitude like that, you certainly deserve your misery.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha, We haven't even made it through a Spring Practice Session and the temper tantrums that a three year old would be proud of erupt! Always amazing!!!
Joe Khatib
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

PokeSmot75 said:

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Its the EXACT same concept as relying on stars to determine the quality of a recruit. You're relying on someone else's evaluation of talent instead of our coaches.

I have no issue with anyone that wants the team to be better, who doesn't? It's totally fair to say something like - "A year after we were 1 inch short and/or a healthy RB shy of a B12 Championship and CFP appearance, the 2022 Cowboys playing with a ton of injuries and inexperience underperformed because of below average coaching and/or below average recruiting in the previous one or two cycles. If the issue is mostly below average recruiting, let's hope the current class turns out better than the collective "stars" might indicate."

That would be a fair take instead of just declaring this class a disaster.


OMG. Or maybe, just maybe, there is a reason virtually no other Power 5 schools offered these guys. Look, I hope they are all successful and OSU wins the next 5 Big 12 championships. I'm still waiting for you to provide some examples where teams ranked in the 50s in recruiting rankings are competing for championships on a regular basis.


Like I said, you're only focused on stars and rankings.

Oh, BTW, last year TCUs class was ranked 45 and KSU was ranked 63.

I guess we're done here, huh?
You are not allowed to use facts against his argument!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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