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Oklahoma State Football

Stick with the Plan, the Original Plan as it Works Best

September 3, 2023
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STILLWATER – Observations from Saturday’s 27-13 opening win over Central Arkansas. I don’t think anybody in the West End Zone was doing back flips on Sunday afternoon, but they also didn’t have to hide all the sharp instruments. First, it is always easier to make corrections after a win than a loss. I promise the football offices in Fort Worth, Waco, and Lubbock were a lot more somber and less encouraging than in Stillwater.

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Stick with the Plan, the Original Plan as it Works Best

18,163 Views | 72 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Pokes4158
Pokes4158
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7:08p, 9/3/23
Gotta love Robert using words like indict. Outlets share the pff grades so fans can know. It's important to get factual information out there in an unbiased manner. Pro football focus is perfect for that. Not sure why it has to be an indictment rather than basic evaluation information. It's be nice for every outlet to be unbiased and open always rather than over explain and defend our shortcomings as a team. Let the people decide how to feel with the information given to them. It's ok for fans to mention areas of weakness just like it is for media outlets
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Robert Allen
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9:02p, 9/3/23
Staff
I actually have a subscription to PFF and like it, but there is a fallicy. They are grading off base information and not from a playbook. Different schools using different schemes alter the blocking and assignments which the graders at PFF wouldn't know about. It's likely 80 percent accurate, sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less. I do use it, but not in lieu of watching the tape myself and knowing or asking about what is going on.

The biggest takeaways on Saturday were the offensive line struggled blocking zone and stretch and predominantly head up. That was for two and a half quarters. After the first drive, my numbers on pass vs. run are totally accurate and it got away from the initial plan of attack, which again I had access to in advance.
In the middle of the third quarter the offense shifted back to more run and started using the gap scheme runs that this team has worked extensively in the spring and fall camp. These are facts. The other fact is the run production in that time frame and the 6.1-yards per carry during that portion of the game. That doesn't count a 43-yard run called back.

Not arguing the overall grades from PFF, honestly from watching the whole game back they are accurate. Grade the third and fourth quarter and that was definitely a higher grade across the board. Tight end Quinton Stewart was very effective as well.

I don't know who you are, not sure I've every met you. If you really did know me, you would know I'm very exacting when it comes to football and evaluating. It is primarily why I might use an outside source like PFF, but I do my own work. The only way I will do it. I spent two hours watching game tape this afternoon before writing the review on the game.

I appreciate your subscription and thank you for your business.
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rcfb
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9:20p, 9/3/23
I see. We tried to out muscle them using our old Zone blocking. And head up. Our Oline is not capable of it even though almost all of them are seniors or super seniors against an FCS opponent.

So we have to go into our gap blocking scheme and reveal some of them cause an FCS team started out rushing us in our home field.

A win is a win. I'm glad we pulled it out. But our senior ladden Oline struggling to put away FCS opponent is not good for our coaches. Which good Oline recruit will see this Oline play yesterday and think, I want to play for coach.

We expected our Oline to be waay better than end of last season. Right now I should taper it down. Birmingham still rusty. Dalton cooper yesterday was disappointing. Josiah Johnson whiffed a lot on blocking. I worry once we start playing P5 opponents, how will we look.
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Eddy Hackleman
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10:44p, 9/3/23
Thanks for the update, do we have any news on Jake Springfield yet?
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MidTownPoke
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In reply to rcfb • 11:38p, 9/3/23
I agree. Totally silly to hold off on doing more gap scheme stuff because apparently we didn't want to "show too much." News flash: opponents will get our stuff on film this season no matter what. Meanwhile an FCS offensive line looked more physically imposing than ours did. Charlie Dickey should have been fired after last season but here we are.
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Pistolp
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In reply to MidTownPoke • 6:07a, 9/4/23
Robert, that explains a lot. I complained in an earlier post the offense looked like "same old, same old" - zone run blocking and a lot of passes out in the flats Per you, because they were! I was very impressed with the holes opened with the gap blocking on run plays. I wished we would have mixed up and run both zone and gap blocking schemes early in the game. If we had made some gash runs early off the gap scheme it would have opened up intermediate pass lanes, and it would have been a different game. We ended up showing it any way.

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NJAggie
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In reply to Pokes4158 • 7:15a, 9/4/23
Pokes4158 said:
Gotta love Robert using words like indict. Outlets share the pff grades so fans can know. It's important to get factual information out there in an unbiased manner. Pro football focus is perfect for that. Not sure why it has to be an indictment rather than basic evaluation information. It's be nice for every outlet to be unbiased and open always rather than over explain and defend our shortcomings as a team. Let the people decide how to feel with the information given to them. It's ok for fans to mention areas of weakness just like it is for media outlets
Well that wasn't shared so you could get another point of view. It's just part of the constant stream of criticism that is on that site for anything this team or coaching staff do. They are hardly unbiased.
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Jally
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9:11a, 9/4/23
"Hey, the offensive line needs to play better, but if you check their grades (and performance) from the first through the middle of the third and then compare them to the end of the game, you will see a dramatic difference."

Oh, so we are supposed to feel so much better that an inferior opponent wore down in the 4Q??? The orange color lenses have no limits!!!

Dickey's seat should be on fire!!!! 4 REDSHIRT SENIORS & 1 REDSHIRT JUNIOR!!!! NO MORE EXCUSES!!!!!!
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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9:19a, 9/4/23
Starting (the season) slow is a way of life around here. But the fact is, we rarely see unexpected early season losses. As alluded to by RA, a mistake filled win is probably more valuable than a blowout, and certainly more valuable than a loss.

Lots of new players, unsettled position battles all over the field, new schemes, new coordinator - it was never destined to be smooth sailing. I'm confident it'll look better next week, and better yet the week after. No worries - yet.

As for the regional and national narrative - you can bet any and everyone not wearing Orange Saturday did not see the game - only the box. And even at that without the context mentioned above.

Take a breath folks, take a breath.
True wisdom is knowing what you don't know.
- Confucius
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PaloDuroPoke
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9:23a, 9/4/23
It was fun to get back at it. Thanks Robert for the insight. Here are my thoughts. Offense first. I thought all three quarterbacks showed they could lead. Rangel has improved immensely in his poise and accuracy. He made a stupid freshman mistake with the interception but you live with that and inexperience. Bowman was calm and cool and his maturity was evident. He found the open receivers and got rid of the ball as need when no one was open. Again maturity. Two drops really cost us a flair pass that was wide open and the down field drop from Green. Both would have been big gains. Right receivers but poor execution by them. I thought Bowman was a little hyped and overthrew some targets. The rust showed. Gunner has improved immensely and was cool and collected. He had some advantages as Robert eluded to, but the kid did what was needed under pressure. It's easy to see he is the one that gives us the best qb run option. I think we can win with all of these guys but we need to settle in on a plan and let them play. The online is what it is. Not great. They did play the game almost in its entirety with two starters out. Not a great thing for continuity. Hopefully they improve and the gap blocking improves their efficiency. It's obvious that depth is still an issue so hope that we don't need it. Our running backs are legit. They get a crease and we will be fine. They run hard and have talent. Not sure what to make of TE and FB. Didn't seem to make a huge difference but there will be opportunities. Receivers have so much talent and depth. Stripling is a stud. Presley is a weapon. Knocking off the rust everywhere else but lots of potential. I wish Owens would get more action. Big receiver that's blocks well and catches everything. Offense has a chance if oline improves and stays healthy. Not worried too much but a few key injuries on the line and here we go again.
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PaloDuroPoke
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9:38a, 9/4/23
Defense was vanilla. Line play was good. Provided pressure and clogged holes between the tackles. Our containment on the outside was poor and that falls on the linebackers being out of position. Mostly on Oliver's watch. He needs to grow quickly in that role. Speaking of linebackers, losing Wright makes depth at mlb worrisome. Hopefully we can holdup there. I was impressed with our depth on the outside linebackers. There was little to no drop off when the 2s came in. This is a good thing to see. This group was a weakness last year and I have hope it can improve into a really good unit. At corner, Cory Black was very good and McKinney is going to be a stud. What happened to Smith. Did he get hurt. I didn't see him in there. Safety was good but vanilla. 9 has got to get better in coverage and tackling or he will get exposed. Again, this group will be much more aggressive as we move forward. I have hope for this unit. Need to get much better but the effort and talent is obvious. Depth at mlb is a concern and hopefully Cam Smith is ok. Other then that, I expect this group to improve every game with familiarity and confidence in the defense. Go Pokes!!!
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Pokes4158
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In reply to Robert Allen • 9:54a, 9/4/23
It's not an indictment when someone uses an evaluation tool is my point. You can over explain all day but the point is the line didn't perform well. As a unit of as individual. NOW FREEZE. Right now is the point where you read me say the line didn't perform well. That's not an indictment it's just the truth so no need to go off to defend them when I made a simple statement. According to pff our line didn't perform very well. It got better late in the game against a tired fcs defense when we switched schemes. These are simple facts not indictments or attacks. Just trying to help you and some of the posters on here to understand the difference. An area of a team can underperform and it can be noted and discussed without it being some big negative thing for you all to defend. It's just people talking about facts. No need to get all riled up. Side note don't assume people haven't done their own research. I for one watched the entire game and it was noticeable live the unit was struggling. Then I paired that with the pff grades and it clearly made sense. I don't need a 4 hour film study to convince myself or others it was better than it was.
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Pokes4158
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In reply to NJAggie • 9:57a, 9/4/23
And you speak for Robert?
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Pokes4158
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In reply to Jally • 10:00a, 9/4/23
Don't be too logical or Robert will come at you. Then his cronies will make sure everything you say is wrong. Basically here in your give an honest opinion but it's not necessarily positive then you're an *******. Only sunshine and rainbows allowed here
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to Pokes4158 • 10:01a, 9/4/23
Pokes4158 said:
It's not an indictment when someone uses an evaluation tool is my point. You can over explain all day but the point is the line didn't perform well. As a unit of as individual. NOW FREEZE. Right now is the point where you read me say the line didn't perform well. That's not an indictment it's just the truth so no need to go off to defend them when I made a simple statement. According to pff our line didn't perform very well. It got better late in the game against a tired fcs defense when we switched schemes. These are simple facts not indictments or attacks. Just trying to help you and some of the posters on here to understand the difference. An area of a team can underperform and it can be noted and discussed without it being some big negative thing for you all to defend. It's just people talking about facts. No need to get all riled up. Side note don't assume people haven't done their own research. I for one watched the entire game and it was noticeable live the unit was struggling. Then I paired that with the pff grades and it clearly made sense. I don't need a 4 hour film study to convince myself or others it was better than it was.


Before RA pointed it out, did you know we changed schemes in the 3rd qtr? If not, then your read of PFF is flawed. If you did know we changed schemes, then why the criticism of RA?

Bottom line, if there's a reason to complain, flawed or not, you'll find it.
True wisdom is knowing what you don't know.
- Confucius
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to Pokes4158 • 10:02a, 9/4/23
Pokes4158 said:
And you speak for Robert?


Nah, he just knows your shtick.
True wisdom is knowing what you don't know.
- Confucius
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Pokes4158
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 10:07a, 9/4/23
Yes I saw a major difference in the play calling when Gundy came in the whole world did and everyone was talking about it. Didn't need to research or study film to see the changes. That fact change's literally nothing about what the point is. Then pff is an entire body of work not just 1 quarter. I get the point he is trying to make. To show everyone it's not as bad as it looked. It was indeed tho because you can't evaluate 1 part and leave out the rest. If we played tired defenses all season long in the 4th quarter then I guess he would have a point. Unfortunately the level of play will increase and we have to play all 4 quarters each week.
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Pokes4158
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 10:08a, 9/4/23
Cronie
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Pokes4158
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 10:08a, 9/4/23
Cronie
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to Pokes4158 • 10:11a, 9/4/23
Pokes4158 said:
Yes I saw a major difference in the play calling when Gundy came in the whole world did and everyone was talking about it. Didn't need to research or study film to see the changes. That fact change's literally nothing about what the point is. Then pff is an entire body of work not just 1 quarter. I get the point he is trying to make. To show everyone it's not as bad as it looked. It was indeed tho because you can't evaluate 1 part and leave out the rest. If we played tired defenses all season long in the 4th quarter then I guess he would have a point. Unfortunately the level of play will increase and we have to play all 4 quarters each week.


You completely miss the point, by a million miles. If our plan is to run gap scheme going forward, the OL grade while running a zone blocking scheme is irrelevant in terms of what to expect going forward. Duh.
True wisdom is knowing what you don't know.
- Confucius
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Pokes4158
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 10:18a, 9/4/23
But if you followed along the whole time instead of interjecting where you wanted you would see you indeed missed the point. It's all about evaluation. Pff or personal research and film study on the first game. Nothing about the future. I'm game 1 for 3 quarters against an fcs team our line struggled mightily running our ages old zone stuff. Base offense couldn't move a soul. We went base. So our offensive line one on one without scheme help couldn't get any push period against an fcs defense. Sure it got better when they got tired and we changed schemes. So do you guys view that as a positive or something? To most fans that's a negative. We gotta get cute to be effective. We should be able to get a 3and 1 all day at will man. There is supposed to be a talent disparity. So tell me exactly what it's supposed to mean? Your point that it got better at the end after a scheme change.
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Pokes4158
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 10:27a, 9/4/23
Also what you and Robert both fail to mention is we aren't getting rid of zone. We are not going gap exclusively for the rest of the year. It's a wrinkle to be added to our current offense. So we still have to be able to block zone. It will not be gap 100 percent going forward. The line needs to be able to do both for our offense to have success. We need to be able to run base against a lesser opponent. For whatever reason y'all think this doesn't apply to osu
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RodeoPoke
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10:33a, 9/4/23
I have those 2 yahoo's on ignore..... who's winning their juvenile pissing contest?

kinda wish they could talk football and I could take them both off ignore, but that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to Pokes4158 • 10:40a, 9/4/23
Pokes4158 said:
But if you followed along the whole time instead of interjecting where you wanted you would see you indeed missed the point. It's all about evaluation. Pff or personal research and film study on the first game. Nothing about the future. I'm game 1 for 3 quarters against an fcs team our line struggled mightily running our ages old zone stuff. Base offense couldn't move a soul. We went base. So our offensive line one on one without scheme help couldn't get any push period against an fcs defense. Sure it got better when they got tired and we changed schemes. So do you guys view that as a positive or something? To most fans that's a negative. We gotta get cute to be effective. We should be able to get a 3and 1 all day at will man. There is supposed to be a talent disparity. So tell me exactly what it's supposed to mean? Your point that it got better at the end after a scheme change.


Focus and concern about irrelevant stuff. Have fun!
True wisdom is knowing what you don't know.
- Confucius
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Pokes4158
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 10:49a, 9/4/23
You and the rest of the cronies always cop out lol just getting into the meat of a discussion and you bail without ever making a point. I'll leave you with this. In most cases an offensive coordinator and head coach would prefer to run the base stuff against lesser competition. It's an age old thing. If they can do it successfully it allows them to break open the playbook as needed. So usually in the non con you keep it vanilla. Mike Gundy staple. BUTTTT if you can't run base against lesser competitors that's in most cases a bad sign. Now sometimes like last year it's from injuries or maybe it new schemes and players that make something ineffective. The issue from Saturdays game is we were missing 1 starter and we ran base 3/4 of the game and we're very ineffective. No injuries to be found right? Springfield left early for a precautionary measure but we had 4 veteran players at all times running a base package and they were not good at it. So does that say good things or bad things? Is it a positive thing that it took us until the very end of the game and a scheme change to get something going? I don't expect an answer because I know you guys don't have one. In the future we can save all this if y'all just mind ya business
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to Pokes4158 • 10:55a, 9/4/23
Pokes4158 said:
You and the rest of the cronies always cop out lol just getting into the meat of a discussion and you bail without ever making a point. I'll leave you with this. In most cases an offensive coordinator and head coach would prefer to run the base stuff against lesser competition. It's an age old thing. If they can do it successfully it allows them to break open the playbook as needed. So usually in the non con you keep it vanilla. Mike Gundy staple. BUTTTT if you can't run base against lesser competitors that's in most cases a bad sign. Now sometimes like last year it's from injuries or maybe it new schemes and players that make something ineffective. The issue from Saturdays game is we were missing 1 starter and we ran base 3/4 of the game and we're very ineffective. No injuries to be found right? Springfield left early for a precautionary measure but we had 4 veteran players at all times running a base package and they were not good at it. So does that say good things or bad things? Is it a positive thing that it took us until the very end of the game and a scheme change to get something going? I don't expect an answer because I know you guys don't have one. In the future we can save all this if y'all just mind ya business


Boy oh boy.

Zone blocking not base.
Gap scheme blocking base.



True wisdom is knowing what you don't know.
- Confucius
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Pokes4158
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 11:05a, 9/4/23
We've been zone run for years and you think our base is gap now. We will be lucky to get that 30-40 percent of the time. You suck man. Definitely not fun to talk ball with. Laters
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GumbyFromPokeyLand
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In reply to Pokes4158 • 12:23p, 9/4/23
Pokes4158 said:
We've been zone run for years and you think our base is gap now. We will be lucky to get that 30-40 percent of the time. You suck man. Definitely not fun to talk ball with. Laters


Dude, our base isn't what we've done, it's what we plan (And practice) to do. Who freakin cares how we execute what we don't plan to do?
True wisdom is knowing what you don't know.
- Confucius
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Pokes4158
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In reply to GumbyFromPokeyLand • 12:37p, 9/4/23
And like I said zone isn't going away. We are not changing to gap scheme 100 percent of the time. Kasey dunn is a passing coordinator with a zone run game. They added some gap to help the run game. We are not a full time gap scheme offense now. So we still have to be able to zone block because we will still use it. What aren't you understanding?
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Joe Khatib
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In reply to Pokes4158 • 1:32p, 9/4/23
Pokes4158 said:
Cronie
Goid Lord shut up MORON!!! You go over to another OSU site, the story you refer to is a VIP or PREMIUM STORY so you either got access to or you pay money to them as well, then come over HERE TO THIS SITE AND BASH ROBERT (typical Cowboy Red Chicken S*** move)! So Cowboy "RED" are you a crony for Go Pokes and 24/7? Bottom line is that we must see improvement out of the ENTIRE OFFENSE to have a successful season, that means no dropped passes all over the place by receivers, QBs making the right call and read, running backs executing and hitting the right hole or gap, and yes the offensive line has to execute and block better, the defense has to execute as well! I personally would like to see us go exclusively to the gap scheme blocking with the G Blocks and pulling lineman to the point of attack but that may not be what the Coaching Staff feels is effective and still wants to incorporate the zone scheme because that does seem better suited to teams that utilize spread and air raid concepts!!! Let's see what it looks like in a couple of weeks after South Alabama (who is going to be a load to handle because they are a veteran team who won ten games last year)!!!
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Pokes4158
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In reply to Joe Khatib • 1:47p, 9/4/23
Cronie
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NJAggie
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In reply to Pokes4158 • 1:58p, 9/4/23
No I don't speak for Robert. I speak for myself, and I don't agree 100% with Robert, but it's better than the everyone of us knows more about football than anyone on staff beat downs you see from so many on that board.

You threw up an opinion citing that board, and I gave you my opinion that the ones posting on and about those on the other board are for the most part always searching for a reason to attack the team.

So I guess I'll take orange colored glasses over hate filled ones.
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Pokes4158
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In reply to NJAggie • 2:07p, 9/4/23
You all see so much negativity and hate behind facts. I only see it for what it is. Good or bad no motive or alternative reason. When something is bad I can see that and accept it. You guys spend to much time making it personal.
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Joe Khatib
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In reply to Pokes4158 • 2:22p, 9/4/23
Pokes4158 said:
You all see so much negativity and hate behind facts. I only see it for what it is. Good or bad no motive or alternative reason. When something is bad I can see that and accept it. You guys spend to much time making it personal.
^^^^^^^^^^DUMBARSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Csquaredosu66
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2:49p, 9/4/23
Well I for one thought the OL was horrible and players are playing out of position because we cannot recruit the position.

I unfortunately know what I am talking about.

Go back and look how many time out OT's was late on kick slides and leaning on defenders. Look how many times they didn't punch.

Go back and look how many times OLineman would
Miss blocks and turn around (specifically the hurdle play) and watch the hand off.

Horrible coaching IMO. There is no "attitude" and technique is missing!
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