Where Do We Stand Now? Oklahoma State Is in a Good Position but Not Home Free

Great piece on this subject Robert, it looks like we can be thankful that we have good leadership to guide OSU through this situation.

I hope it is not the PAC; It is terrible to travel west for football. If it is 11 am on west coast it is 9 am here and if it is 7 pm there it is 9 here also the NFL did a study on traveling west and teams that went west lost at a higher percentage. We should look to the BIG first; then the ACC and if we have to the PAC. We should not play uo in football unless we are forced to. We should play two texas schools to help with recruiting. uo just says that because they win 80% of the time in football and care nothing about any other sport. In addition, there are lots of potential teams to look forward to in the ACC: Clemson, Fl St. Miami, NC, Va. Tech, one real one in the PAC: USC maybe Washington and Org. and maybe Az St.

Glad Dr. Shrum and AD Weiberg are Alphas in looking out for the best interests of OSU. Bowlsby has failed and continuing to follow his lead in anything is crazy. Bowlsby had the chance last year to pounce on the weakened PAC12 and form a super conference that would have probably kept the Sewerners and Shorthorns in the fold because of the projected money. Was he talked out of it by those two? His judgement, vision and passiveness has killed the B12. Can Bowlsby get USC, AZST, AZ, WA, OR, UCLA, CO and UT to leave the PAC12 to form a Super West conference? I would believe him walking on water before that happens! OSU should stay put and wrench the blood $$$$ out of the Zero U and Shothorns and then get in the SUPER PAC. Too much is being made of game times and travel distances We need TT and TCU to go with us for TX recruiting purposes and rivalries. The business has changed and we must evolve or die. Let's go west! GO POKES!!!

RA, great piece.
Consider the following. I believe it's the biggest value play left in college football that could reasonably happen.

The PAC invites OSU, TTech, TCU and Houston. This achieves several desirable results. The PAC gets into Texas for recruiting and audience, gets the Houston and DFW markets, gets four central time zone schools, and gets 4 quality programs.
The PAC eliminates divisions, replacing it with a 9-game rotating schedule for each team thereby allowing a West Coast team to play in the Central time zone every week and thus a quality noon Eastern game each week.
The Big10 picks up ISU and KU and forms an alliance with the PAC, both Fox media leagues. Each team from both conferences would play a team from the other conference every year. That's 16 additional games, with 8-10 games every year in the eastern or central time zone. Fox would love that package and would compete well with espns SEC and ACC packages.
Thoughts?

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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RA, great piece.
Consider the following. I believe it's the biggest value play left in college football that could reasonably happen.

The PAC invites OSU, TTech, TCU and Houston. This achieves several desirable results. The PAC gets into Texas for recruiting and audience, gets the Houston and DFW markets, gets four central time zone schools, and gets 4 quality programs.
The PAC eliminates divisions, replacing it with a 9-game rotating schedule for each team thereby allowing a West Coast team to play in the Central time zone every week and thus a quality noon Eastern game each week.
The Big10 picks up ISU and KU and forms an alliance with the PAC, both Fox media leagues. Each team from both conferences would play a team from the other conference every year. That's 16 additional games, with 8-10 games every year in the eastern or central time zone. Fox would love that package and would compete well with espns SEC and ACC packages.
Thoughts?

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TCU is religious affiliated school. PAC likely won't accept that.

Houston is a non-starter. No tv presence. This alignment is about tv contracts/revenue and eyeballs you can bring to the table.

B10 has the state of Iowa now with the Hawks, ISU brings little to the table as far as eyeballs. KU is a dumpster fire of a football program. BB might be getting hammered, Mizz already brings KC and St. Louis markets.

in this reorg, academics isn't the player it was years ago. this is about FB and TV money.

thetruth said:

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Houston is a non-starter. No tv presence. This alignment is about tv contracts/revenue and eyeballs you can bring to the table.

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If Houston was in a different conference playing OSU and USC, etc., then there would be most certainly eyeballs in Houston tunng in the game.

This is where the concept of TV market comes into play. The Houston Cougars "viewers" are a reflection of their current conference and current lack of TV deals, not lack of interest in general.

Looking only at "viewers" is a false narrative, because much of that metric is outside of the influence of the school.

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thetruth said:

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Houston is a non-starter. No tv presence. This alignment is about tv contracts/revenue and eyeballs you can bring to the table.

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

If Houston was in a different conference playing OSU and USC, etc., then there would be most certainly eyeballs in Houston tunng in the game.

This is where the concept of TV market comes into play. The Houston Cougars "viewers" are a reflection of their current conference and current lack of TV deals, not lack of interest in general.

Looking only at "viewers" is a false narrative, because much of that metric is outside of the influence of the school.

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not entirely true. can Houston deliver eyeballs when they aren't playing USC? As an example, OSU when playing tx or ou draws about 2.1 million viewers. when OSU plays other B12 members, they draw about 1.5-1.7. the last numbers are higher than most in the PAC 12 and all but about 4-6 B10 members.
the conferences have all kinds of data available to them to help them determine what a school would bring to the table. including academics, total sports program (what they bring in BB, baseball, wrestling, etc, whatever is applicable).
My guess is that Houston doesn't begin to deliver on several these fronts.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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RA, great piece.
Consider the following. I believe it's the biggest value play left in college football that could reasonably happen.

The PAC invites OSU, TTech, TCU and Houston. This achieves several desirable results. The PAC gets into Texas for recruiting and audience, gets the Houston and DFW markets, gets four central time zone schools, and gets 4 quality programs.
The PAC eliminates divisions, replacing it with a 9-game rotating schedule for each team thereby allowing a West Coast team to play in the Central time zone every week and thus a quality noon Eastern game each week.
The Big10 picks up ISU and KU and forms an alliance with the PAC, both Fox media leagues. Each team from both conferences would play a team from the other conference every year. That's 16 additional games, with 8-10 games every year in the eastern or central time zone. Fox would love that package and would compete well with espns SEC and ACC packages.
Thoughts?

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thetruth said:

TCU is religious affiliated school. PAC likely won't accept that.

Houston is a non-starter. No tv presence. This alignment is about tv contracts/revenue and eyeballs you can bring to the table.

B10 has the state of Iowa now with the Hawks, ISU brings little to the table as far as eyeballs. KU is a dumpster fire of a football program. BB might be getting hammered, Mizz already brings KC and St. Louis markets.

in this reorg, academics isn't the player it was years ago. this is about FB and TV money.

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If the PAC wants more viewers, they have to expand. If they expand, they want quality programs. The PAC also desperately wants games in the noon Eastern time slot. This proposal gives them what they need. What other teams in the Central time zone fit the bill? Yes TCU has religious affiliation, but it's very mild compared to BYU or Baylor. Getting a two Texas programs in a huge markets gives them more tv and recruiting value than anything else reasonably available.

You said it yourself, this is about TV money. IMO, the proposal above delivers the most realistic TV value upgrade available.

Guys unless a big shift in curent thinking i'm sorry were going to get left out. I hope I'm wrong.

but.... OSU would NOT draw those numbers if we were not in the B12 and had the good TV slots from our contract with ESPN/Fox.

it's a which came first story... the chicken or the egg.

It's not accurate to simply drop out the OU and UT game numbers because we are often playing for the conference lead or conf champ game spot - or playing somebody else that is.

those numbers mean something, but there is no way to predict how some other team in our position, in a gigantic TV market might do...

I just want to point out that a couple that of the attributes that RA points out that makes us attractive to other conferences are awful for us as Oklahoma State fans.
PAC12: we can bring 11am kick offs at our place. How do all the Stillwater merchants and tailgaters feel about MORE 11am kicks???
BIG10: we can bring November night games. While not as cold as Michigan, I've been to plenty of a little colder than I'd like night games at the back end of the season.

Jally said:

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I just want to point out that a couple that of the attributes that RA points out that makes us attractive to other conferences are awful for us as Oklahoma State fans.
PAC12: we can bring 11am kick offs at our place. How do all the Stillwater merchants and tailgaters feel about MORE 11am kicks???
BIG10: we can bring November night games. While not as cold as Michigan, I've been to plenty of a little colder than I'd like night games at the back end of the season.

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Or, you can be comfortable playing SMU at 2:30. SMH

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Jally said:

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I just want to point out that a couple that of the attributes that RA points out that makes us attractive to other conferences are awful for us as Oklahoma State fans.
PAC12: we can bring 11am kick offs at our place. How do all the Stillwater merchants and tailgaters feel about MORE 11am kicks???
BIG10: we can bring November night games. While not as cold as Michigan, I've been to plenty of a little colder than I'd like night games at the back end of the season.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Or, you can be comfortable playing SMU at 2:30. SMH

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when did SMU come into the discussion? I've not seen any serious scenario mentioned that included SMU. (nor Texas Southern, which you used like time).

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Jally said:

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I just want to point out that a couple that of the attributes that RA points out that makes us attractive to other conferences are awful for us as Oklahoma State fans.
PAC12: we can bring 11am kick offs at our place. How do all the Stillwater merchants and tailgaters feel about MORE 11am kicks???
BIG10: we can bring November night games. While not as cold as Michigan, I've been to plenty of a little colder than I'd like night games at the back end of the season.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Or, you can be comfortable playing SMU at 2:30. SMH

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

when did SMU come into the discussion? I've not seen any serious scenario mentioned that included SMU. (nor Texas Southern, which you used like time).

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Uh, it's pretty simple. If we don't get invited to the PAC or B10, most every outlet would expect us to eventually combine with elements of the AAC. SMU is in the AAC.

Keep SMH

CaliforniaCowboy said:

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but.... OSU would NOT draw those numbers if we were not in the B12 and had the good TV slots from our contract with ESPN/Fox.

it's a which came first story... the chicken or the egg.

It's not accurate to simply drop out the OU and UT game numbers because we are often playing for the conference lead or conf champ game spot - or playing somebody else that is.

those numbers mean something, but there is no way to predict how some other team in our position, in a gigantic TV market might do...

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I think you are on to something here CC. OSU football is an exciting brand and draws a casual TV observers attention. I don't know how that holds up in the PAC.

I think the two comparisons we can hope for in the PAC is will we be Oregon or Arizona State. I am not sure we raise the tide on the entire league.

Not interested in playing conference games against SMU either. Just pointing out that, no matter how we spin this, this not good for us or college football.

There are lots of things not to like about the situation. The task at hand is to make the best of a bad situation understanding there are compromises. Enduring a few less than optimal game times is a small price to pay in order to maintain big time college football in Stillwater.

Sources close to this sheet show along with ancient alien theorists have indicated that OSU, TT and TCU will join the Super PAC. Amazon will go after ESPN and create a new sports network with the ultimate goal of getting the B10 and ACC. Each Super PAC player will get a NIL contract for a minimum of $10,000/season. The winner of the Super PAC CFP will get an extra $25 million in pay. SEC will petition the Super PAC to join up. Sewerners and Shorthorns will be kicked to the curb and forced to join the AAC. ESPN will file bankruptcy. All the hosts of Gameday will go to work in Norman at the "Mile of Cars" as sales associates.

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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Uh, it's pretty simple. If we don't get invited to the PAC or B10, most every outlet would expect us to eventually combine with elements of the AAC. SMU is in the AAC.

Keep SMH

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I thought that it was reported that OSU said NO to the AAC. (regardless of "most every outlet").

the 4 options that are most frequently discussed are 1) B1G, 2) Pac12, 3) ACC, 4) maintain and expand - Cincy, Memphis, BYU, etc.... NO SMU.

you don't even believe that we would ever be in a conference with SMU.

"most every outlet"... SMH... SMU / OSU TV broadcasts are not even in the balance.

shouldn't we first agree what "big time college football" even means?

Here are the final rankings from last year. (playoff - the AP had some even higher)

#8 Cincy
#12 Costal Carolina
#16 BYU
#19 ULaLa
#22 San Jose
#25 Tulsa

heaven forbid with get locked in with some actual Top 25 teams!!!

#17 USC
#25 Oregon

#20 Texas
#21 OSU

I have to think Somebody at Fox/CBS is knee deep in the data seeking out this or some similar scenario to capture best TV Value for revenue generation.

Let's hope the PAC 12 Commissioner has an innovators mind about going big and what could be.

CaliforniaCowboy said:

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shouldn't we first agree what "big time college football" even means?

Here are the final rankings from last year. (playoff - the AP had some even higher)

#8 Cincy
#12 Costal Carolina
#16 BYU
#19 ULaLa
#22 San Jose
#25 Tulsa

heaven forbid with get locked in with some actual Top 25 teams!!!

#17 USC
#25 Oregon

#20 Texas
#21 OSU

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Big time = big money, not ranking

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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Uh, it's pretty simple. If we don't get invited to the PAC or B10, most every outlet would expect us to eventually combine with elements of the AAC. SMU is in the AAC.

Keep SMH

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

I thought that it was reported that OSU said NO to the AAC. (regardless of "most every outlet").

the 4 options that are most frequently discussed are 1) B1G, 2) Pac12, 3) ACC, 4) maintain and expand - Cincy, Memphis, BYU, etc.... NO SMU.

you don't even believe that we would ever be in a conference with SMU.

"most every outlet"... SMH... SMU / OSU TV broadcasts are not even in the balance.

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If it makes you happy, replace the SMU example with Memphis. Same point. Who the hell would ever take Memphis at 2:30 instead of USC at 11:00, or Ohio State at 6:00 pm on November 28th.

Are you intentionally that obtuse, or does it come naturally?.

First, we have to de everything we can to get in the B1G, if that fails then we need to try the ACC. The ACC could work with an east and west division especially if one other team goes with you, maybe KU but there football tv numbers are terrible so, maybe Tech or TCU??? Then if none of that works have to settle for PAC, but football will take a hit because it will be hard to recruit texas and we have no way to recruit out west plus no one lives in the vast divide in between the SW and the far west. If any good team will join us going to the B1G it would be a fantastic set up. There could be two great divisions. We need Notre Dame to join us in the B1G. Or, if that won't work maybe KU, but football kills them, or even ISU.

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+ 1 more quotes (click to expand)

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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Uh, it's pretty simple. If we don't get invited to the PAC or B10, most every outlet would expect us to eventually combine with elements of the AAC. SMU is in the AAC.

Keep SMH

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

I thought that it was reported that OSU said NO to the AAC. (regardless of "most every outlet").

the 4 options that are most frequently discussed are 1) B1G, 2) Pac12, 3) ACC, 4) maintain and expand - Cincy, Memphis, BYU, etc.... NO SMU.

you don't even believe that we would ever be in a conference with SMU.

"most every outlet"... SMH... SMU / OSU TV broadcasts are not even in the balance.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

If it makes you happy, replace the SMU example with Memphis. Same point. Who the hell would ever take Memphis at 2:30 instead of USC at 11:00, or Ohio State at 6:00 pm on November 28th.

Are you intentionally that obtuse, or does it come naturally?.

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my points are quite valid, and are astute, NOT obtuse.

Why do you always resort to name calling and personal attacks when somebody has a different point of view than yours - using the exact same data?

Those are, once again, absolute inane examples. How bout reality, like OSU/Memphis at 2:30 versus USC/Washington State (or any other lame Pac12 team) in the same time slot.

How about #10 OSU/ # 8 Cincy pitted in a time slot against Vanderbilt / Kentucky?

How about opening that box and actually noticing that it has sides and is closed when the lid is down.

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

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shouldn't we first agree what "big time college football" even means?

Here are the final rankings from last year. (playoff - the AP had some even higher)

#8 Cincy
#12 Costal Carolina
#16 BYU
#19 ULaLa
#22 San Jose
#25 Tulsa

heaven forbid with get locked in with some actual Top 25 teams!!!

#17 USC
#25 Oregon

#20 Texas
#21 OSU

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

Big time = big money, not ranking

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so... UCLA not big time. Check. OSU not big time. Check.

there are only what 10? 15? "Big time" programs in the county?

you just make this stuff up on the fly.

I'm curious why they drop uo and tu from the tv ratings. I think if you replace them with Oh St and Mich or USC and Oregon the numbers stay the same. Plus if you drop the top 2 or biggest rival from any schools numbers they will drop. It is absurd to say look at the numbers without uo and tu.

WCOkie said:

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I'm curious why they drop uo and tu from the tv ratings. I think if you replace them with Oh St and Mich or USC and Oregon the numbers stay the same. Plus if you drop the top 2 or biggest rival from any schools numbers they will drop. It is absurd to say look at the numbers without uo and tu.

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yup, and equally absurd to compare any team's numbers that are NOT in the Big12, with the numbers of teams that ARE in the B12.

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+ 2 more quotes (click to expand)

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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Uh, it's pretty simple. If we don't get invited to the PAC or B10, most every outlet would expect us to eventually combine with elements of the AAC. SMU is in the AAC.

Keep SMH

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

I thought that it was reported that OSU said NO to the AAC. (regardless of "most every outlet").

the 4 options that are most frequently discussed are 1) B1G, 2) Pac12, 3) ACC, 4) maintain and expand - Cincy, Memphis, BYU, etc.... NO SMU.

you don't even believe that we would ever be in a conference with SMU.

"most every outlet"... SMH... SMU / OSU TV broadcasts are not even in the balance.

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GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

If it makes you happy, replace the SMU example with Memphis. Same point. Who the hell would ever take Memphis at 2:30 instead of USC at 11:00, or Ohio State at 6:00 pm on November 28th.

Are you intentionally that obtuse, or does it come naturally?.

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

my points are quite valid, and are astute, NOT obtuse.

Why do you always resort to name calling and personal attacks when somebody has a different point of view than yours - using the exact same data?

Those are, once again, absolute inane examples. How bout reality, like OSU/Memphis at 2:30 versus USC/Washington State (or any other lame Pac12 team) in the same time slot.

How about #10 OSU/ # 8 Cincy pitted in a time slot against Vanderbilt / Kentucky?

How about opening that box and actually noticing that it has sides and is closed when the lid is down.

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What can't you follow?

The question is - would you rather have a league consisting of OSU and other B12 remnants plus SMU, Memphis, Cincy, Tulsa, UCF, etc and play your games at 2:30, or join the PAC12 or B10 and have a few 11:00 games or night games in November. That's it. Nothing more. End of subject.

If you want the former, good for you. You're the one OSU fan that would support such nonsense.

If you want the latter, why do you keep steering the conversation into the ditch?

It's a good time to end the conversation while everyone is laughing (at you).

The best part of this story is that our administration is being proactive and aggressively looking for the best fit. They know this conference is toast and so are we if we continue with it in the future. My biggest concern is recruiting. Jordon Crooks just committed to a 4-7 Arkansas team. Because "they play in the SEC". Enough said, find us a home.

I am going to be pretty blunt here bit it isn't Jordan that is the problem, he really likes OSU and the coaches, it is Daddy who thinks he is the next Outland Trophy winner, good luck to him, we will see what happens in the future.

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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What can't you follow?

The question is - would you rather have a league consisting of OSU and other B12 remnants plus SMU, Memphis, Cincy, Tulsa, UCF, etc and play your games at 2:30, or join the PAC12 or B10 and have a few 11:00 games or night games in November. That's it. Nothing more. End of subject.

If you want the former, good for you. You're the one OSU fan that would support such nonsense.

If you want the latter, why do you keep steering the conversation into the ditch?

It's a good time to end the conversation while everyone is laughing (at you).

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sorry pal... that is NOT the question.... not even close. that is rejected and has been rejected and is the most remote possibility on the table.

you don't ever provide any supporting backup... you don't ever answer the questions asked.... you don't listen to what is actually being said by others... then you mock posters and ridicule them for having original thoughts.

It is a good time to stop the discussion, because you apparently were not interested in factual discussion in the first place.

SMH.... SMH. Texas Southern... SMH. good lawd

Joe Khatib said:

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I am going to be pretty blunt here bit it isn't Jordan that is the problem, he really likes OSU and the coaches, it is Daddy who thinks he is the next Outland Trophy winner, good luck to him, we will see what happens in the future.

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Well his daddy isn't very smart. LB can't win the outland. that is a lineman award. butkus is the LB award.