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Oklahoma State Football

Don't Believe Everything You Read About the Alliance and Realignment

August 23, 2021
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STILLWATER – Every day I work to get you something fresh about the subject of conference realignment and currently it is “The Alliance” that has everybody worked up. Just what are the ACC, Big Ten, and Pac-12 up to with this alliance? Many of the media are talking a scheduling alliance, but virtually all of these schools in all three of those conferences have dates booked for quality non-conference games, rivalry games with teams in other conferences, and games with Group of Five or FCS opponents in their region that they are committed to helping financially by scheduling them. Tough to tear up all those agreements.

The Pac-12 and the Big Ten are coming up on television contract negotiations and scheduling each other in so many games and the ACC would probably bring some value. More than the games they have already booked, you would have to do the accounting.

Penn State athletic director Sandy Barbour told ESPN that the alliance is about a lot more than money. I agree and so does longtime college football and sports expert and Oklahoma State graduate Brett McMurphy, now working for The Action NetworkHQ.   

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Brett McMurphy

“With the NCAA on its’ last legs, the Big Ten or the SEC, somebody is going to have to govern over college athletics,” explained McMurphy. “I think the conferences are seeing that the conference with the most power will be seeing which rules that everybody will go by, so I think that could kind of lend into the power structure going forward. The Pac-12, Big Ten, ACC try and become some Justice League kind of super-heroes and whether that works or not we’ll have to find out.”

The SEC and their commissioner Greg Sankey implied that they would be up for the job during the SEC Football Kickoff and Media Days last month and Sankey said as much in his state of the SEC address. That and the move of Texas and Oklahoma into the SEC is more than likely the biggest reason that the ACC, Big Ten, and Pac-12 have moved toward their “alliance.”

Meanwhile, Oklahoma State, likely the other seven remaining Big 12 schools, and schools like San Diego State, Boise State, and others wait for the Pac-12 to announce some sort of conclusion from their working group that is looking into whether they want to expand. New Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff made it known that was a possibility last Friday in an exclusive interview in the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

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Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff

“I think we’re really, really happy with the 12 that we have in the league. The opportunity to revisit that following Texas and Oklahoma has certainly presented itself. I am not actively poaching any school or convincing anyone to leave their existing conference, but I wouldn’t be doing my job if I wasn’t listening to schools that wanted to go in the Pac-12, and we’ve had a lot of them reach out,” explained Kliavkoff carefully. “Probably all of the ones you would expect and several you’d be surprised by.

“We have taken initial meetings with everyone that has expressed an interest,” he continued. “We have a working group … who are together deciding on what to recommend … At the end of the day, they’ll make the decision about whether or not to offer admission to the Pac-12 to any other schools.”

Kliavkoff added he felt that a conclusion to the question needed to come soon so to not linger on the situation and the rumors it creates. Kliavkoff said in the next two-to-three weeks. My sources say look for something as early as this Friday.

There was another story in The Mercury News saying basically the same thing as the interview in the Review-Journal. We read Jon Wilner’s story but failed to read into it anything definite about the direction the Pac-12 might go. 

In our interview with McMurphy, he cited something we have harped on repeatedly, the Pac-12 needs schools in the central time zone that can get their television partners games in the 11 a.m. central/noon easter time zones. If they can cover those then they can offer inventory for all time slots on a football Saturday.

“I think what makes the Pac-12 unique is that they are hampered by geography. If they are going to add any schools, then I think Oklahoma State would be among the leading contenders along with another one-to-three schools in the Big 12,” McMurphy stated. “The reason is they could have San Diego State, they could have Boise State, BYU, and could have had them 100-years ago and they don’t want them. The question is, is it better for them to do a scheduling alliance with the Big Ten or the ACC. The question is does the Big Ten want to do that. They have the most pull right now and they are the ones calling the shots. So, for the Big Ten to want to do an alliance with the ACC and the Pac-12 then that has to make sense financially for them to do because they have the most to lose as they are with the SEC at the top of the money pile.”

Kliavkoff won’t say it and neither will anybody else with the Pac-12, but the conference needs some new blood that will point the way. One thing that you hear with regards to the Pac-12 is that football is not taken as serious by everybody in that conference. You have seen some schools start to build new stadiums and new football facilities. In the Big 12 football is very serious and facilities are an arm race as every school is looking to do what they can to get in front. Iowa State just opened a new performance facility as did West Virginia, Kansas State and Texas Tech have done a lot, TCU and Baylor have recent new stadiums, and Oklahoma State while their facilities are a little over a decade old is now about to embark on a new locker room and West End Zone update for football.

The Pac-12 suffers from heavy dept with some of its’ schools as Cal-Berkely has the highest athletic department debt in Division I at $438 million. In the top 15 are Washington at $249.5-million, Arizona State at $209.6 million, and Oregon at $207.9-million. From the Big 12 there is only Oklahoma in the top 15 at no. 11 with $218.4 million in debt.

The numbers show Oklahoma State could help with football television viewers, football prowess, and a dedication to football.

That said, McMurphy said something sobering and true.

“The reality is Oklahoma State, they do not control their own fate. You brought up Oklahoma State’s ranking in television viewers, success in football, all the other statistical numbers you can throw out there,” McMurphy, again an OSU graduate said. “Unfortunately, that doesn’t entirely matter. They have to be wanted by one of the other conferences. If they aren’t wanted by one of the other conferences there is nothing Oklahoma State can do about it. Nothing Texas Tech can do about it. Nothing TCU or any of the other schools can do about it.”

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Atmosphere counts on a wanna join a conference resume’.

The one change in that statement is Oklahoma State can control its’ resume, appearance, dedication to good football, attendance, and the kind of show that takes place every Saturday at Boone Pickens Stadium or wherever the Cowboys suit up and play.

As for this process, the warning here is the same thing we have said and most other reporters covering the story that have their reputations and aren’t trying to make one have said, this is a long-term situation. It will be ongoing. Right now, everybody is trying to move with great knowledge and calculation.

“I’m guessing and what everyone that I have talked to has said, everything is on the table,” McMurphy said. “If anybody thinks they have come up with the athletic directors, school presidents, and commissioners have decided then they are wrong. This is not just a one-or-two-year thing, this will be a 20-year solution. If anybody tells you they know, they don’t.”

Discussion from...

Don't Believe Everything You Read About the Alliance and Realignment

15,491 Views | 38 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by CaliforniaCowboy
CaliforniaCowboy
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good lord... I said all of that last week and I didn't talk to anybody.

well, except for the NCAA is dead part, I think that is a load of crap.

Orangeheart72
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I have a strong concern (just perhaps a tad below my first concern as to how we shape up as a positive or negative financial TV impact addition to the PAC12 or B10 conference), as to how the PAC or B10 perceive Oklahoma as a cultural addition to California, Oregon, Seattle or Minnesota, Michigan and Chicago based conferences.

We're not only seen generally as fly over territory, but the cultural/political geographic divide in the U.S. probably hasn't been this great and contentious since the Civil War. (Vietnam divide wasn't nearly as geographic in nature IMO).

I am truly concerned that may override some of the purely athletic competition/business decision sides of this. This could be even more an issue if the national sports media is (perhaps) also carrying any strong cultural prejudices about Oklahoma and are in a position to help make this expansion topic and decision either easier or harder.
TUSKAPOKE
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So, when SEC, PAC 12 or B1G conference fail to absorb OSU and a few other B12 teams, the B12 needs to add a UH, SMU, BYU, Boise, Cincinnati, Memphis, UCF, USF and declare the Big 16 a Power 5 conference, which carries over from B12, and take on all comers as the 12 team CFP takes shape. Then join the "alliance" and not let the SEC run the entire show. Then win. Create a product that is attractive to TV and beat the blue bloods. No reason to back down or concede and go on the offensive and do not feel sorry for ourselves. Do not give up! Go fight! May have no other choice. Not ideal but OSU still exists and competes.
Robert Allen
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I get all of that but he football success for a conference that has not always taken football as seriously factors. The huge factor is the geography and the ability to hit that early Saturday time slot.
TUSKAPOKE
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I agree with you RA. Heard your discussion this morning on TPS. I believe OSU has a lot to offer and the time zone business and expanded recruiting grounds don't hurt but it will get down to money. Will the money be there for an expanded conference or will expansion cut into the bottom line of the existing teams? That is the big question. Thanks for your work!
CaliforniaCowboy
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IMHO, the "cultural issues" that most of you are referencing are those issues being presented by the media, and are NOT the dominant "cultural issues" at play....

Robert touched on it, that the Pac12 has not always been serious about football... and guess what, they still aren't.

Culture - FOOTBALL culture.

OSU fits in more with the deep south culture of football... Friday night lights and weekend excursions all for the sake of your team. Tailgating. Real southern style football culture.

The west coast doesn't have it... at all. Udub has a touch of it if you include their rich folks who drive their boats to the stadium and party on game days.... that's about it. all the way over to the Rocky Mountains (CU).

for the west coast, college football is not a passion, it's often an afterthought.

sure, sure, sure... money, TV time zones, yada, yada, yada, but that is not it. That is not going to change the passion. There is a reason that the Pac12 lags far behind in most every category of viewership and participation (the SF bay area teams can hardly draw a half-stadium).

Yes, there are cultural issues that leave the teams and leagues chasims apart, but it's football culture, not politics.

thetruth
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CC makes a great point about the "culture" that really matters in this. There is a mountain of difference in PAC football culture vs. the rest of the country when it comes to college FB.
NJAggie
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CaliforniaCowboy said:

IMHO, the "cultural issues" that most of you are referencing are those issues being presented by the media, and are NOT the dominant "cultural issues" at play....

Robert touched on it, that the Pac12 has not always been serious about football... and guess what, they still aren't.

Culture - FOOTBALL culture.

OSU fits in more with the deep south culture of football... Friday night lights and weekend excursions all for the sake of your team. Tailgating. Real southern style football culture.

The west coast doesn't have it... at all. Udub has a touch of it if you include their rich folks who drive their boats to the stadium and party on game days.... that's about it. all the way over to the Rocky Mountains (CU).

for the west coast, college football is not a passion, it's often an afterthought.

sure, sure, sure... money, TV time zones, yada, yada, yada, but that is not it. That is not going to change the passion. There is a reason that the Pac12 lags far behind in most every category of viewership and participation (the SF bay area teams can hardly draw a half-stadium).

Yes, there are cultural issues that leave the teams and leagues chasims apart, but it's football culture, not politics.


I fear this is going to be the deciding factor. They are happy with their little club, and really don't care about the playoffs or TV ratings. Bringing in OSU/BU/TCU/TT would add money, but then they'd all have to try and up their football games. Spend money on stadiums, try to drive attendance, and actually try to field a team that wants to win. Utah is already a fly in the ointment and 4 more might make it unbearable. Thus the schedule changes and a scheduling deal with the B1G/ACC looks so much better to them.
CaliforniaCowboy
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supposed to be announced later today.... sounds like they are also NOT in favor of playoff expansion (see the 17 game comment below)


Part of the reason these conferences came together is because they agree on how academics intersect with athletics and other holistic experiences of earning a college degree. Realignment among the conferences is not part of their discussions.

"Some of things we've been doing to ourselves, that just needs to stop," said one high-profile official from a school within the would-be alliance to CBS Sports. "Some of this ****, we're talking about expanding to 12 [teams]. For two teams that [go all the way], that's 17 games. We're going to talk about 'these kids aren't professionals' and we don't pay them? I firmly believe in the academic value of what we're doing, but at a certain point, it looks like professionals. I firmly believe in the academic piece that we're providing."

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/details-released-on-alliance-between-acc-big-ten-and-pac-12/
NJAggie
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Well I didn't think we'd see hostility towards playoff expansion period, I'd expected a desire to stop ESPN from controlling it. I actually agree with them, and would be fine with dropping the playoffs and just going back to the bowls (and wouldn't that screw the SEC?).

But this could really be the basis for the SEC to split off and go their own way. And, that might be alright for us. If they did that then I'd bet the alliance keep us in the group with playoff eligibility, and just plug ahead. With that we'd be fine.
CaliforniaCowboy
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yeah, I'm behind it 100% too, but they need to take it a step further and also get rid of the NIL nonsense, and get back to armature athletics.

Let the SEC form a semi-pro league; I'm not really interested in that
NJAggie
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Unfortunately I think we're stuck with it. Judges make these rulings with no thought about the impact. Yes that kid should have gotten money for the video game using him on the cover, but you don't open the floodgates to get him his $10K.

Fans don't think about it either. I had someone on the WVU site say they can't pay for scholarships outside the 85. Well oh yes they can, and they're going to.

I'm afraid right now we're walking towards a CFB civil war right now. The SEC won't accept the muzzle the alliance plans to put on them (and I think ESPN will stuff money in their pockets to keep them agitated), we could see a split with the SEC taking the playoffs and leaving.
CaliforniaCowboy
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NJAggie said:


I'm afraid right now we're walking towards a CFB civil war right now. The SEC won't accept the muzzle the alliance plans to put on them (and I think ESPN will stuff money in their pockets to keep them agitated), we could see a split with the SEC taking the playoffs and leaving.
I'm in favor of that.... bu-bye

let's get back to the bowl games and pageantry of college football. It' about family and friends, not headlines and dollars.

Joe Khatib
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There was a pretty damn big cultural clash that happened in the 1930s with a large number of people leaving places like Oklahoma, Texas and Arkansas for California, I know this because I have relatives in California whose Grandparents were the brothers of my Grandfather who took them selves out of Oklahoman and the dust bowl to Cali. It is intetesting that you are now seeing this in reverse when people in Oklahoma and Texas tell the large numbers of Californians fleeing the State "Don't California my Texas" or " Don't California my Oklahoma" Funny how things can come full circle.
Joe Khatib
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Robert speaks the truth here!
CaliforniaCowboy
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Joe Khatib said:

There was a pretty damn big cultural clash that happened in the 1930s with a large number of people leaving places like Oklahoma, Texas and Arkansas for California, I know this because I have relatives in California whose Grandparents were the brothers of my Grandfather who took them selves out of Oklahoman and the dust bowl to Cali. It is intetesting that you are now seeing this in reverse when people in Oklahoma and Texas tell the large numbers of Californians fleeing the State "Don't California my Texas" or " Don't California my Oklahoma" Funny how things can come full circle.
that was not a culture clash... it was an objection to invasion.

jobs were gobbled up, housing prices went up, etc., etc.

people went there not due to culture but due to opportunity... people are leaving now, not due to culture, but due to lack of opportunity.

yeah, it's a full circle, but it has nothing to do with culture .... the democrats did not ruin Oklahoma in the 30's, that's not why they left.
NJAggie
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CaliforniaCowboy said:


.... the democrats did not ruin Oklahoma in the 30's, that's not why they left.
That's debatable, but yes most were fleeing a drought and only access to small farmsteads in Eastern Oklahoma, and a few were actually from and fleeing the dust bowl.

But the second wave post WWII was by far larger and didn't get any resistance.

Someone did a study of the portions of each states populations that had moved there from another state, and by far the largest single block was Oklahomans to CA. The second was Texans to CA. Nothing anywhere else was even close. Texans to OK was Oklahomas largest group.
CaliforniaCowboy
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my Dad was 18 in 1935, and graduated Little Rock HS....

he told me stories about him and his buddy Shorty hitching the rails to central CA (Fresno area) to work the watermelon fields in the summer.

one summer it was hot as hades and the foreman was driving the guys relentless. There were two guys loading the truck, pitching melons up to the other guy. By noon those two guys collapsed from the heat and had to be taken to the hospital. the forman pointed to my dad and Shorty and said, hey, you Arkies get up here and load the truck. Dad told him the only way we're going to do that is if we get to take a water break anytime we want. The forman agreed and they busted their butts until the field was cleared. After the summer, they would hitch the rails back to Arkansas.

my folks lived in OK from 1952 till present, and Dad said... "dang it was hot, never felt anything like it"... and he's familiar with OK heat.

anyway.... that Ca/Okie story is not much different from the Ca/Oregon story or the CA/Washington story... and now the CA/Texas story. (just in reverse - i.e. get the heck out of here you're driving up prices)

I lived in Dallas in 1983 and the big joke there at the time was that the National Guard was guarding the wrong river, they should be blocking the Red river, not the Rio Grande
Robert Allen
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There is no doubt this is a showdown. The Alliance doesn't want the SEC and Greg Sankey to take over and rule college athletics. The alliance wants the college athletics model to stay much the same as it has been and the SEC is pushing more toward the professional model . They are liable to bump heads and opinions over most everything coming up. The Big 12 can't sway anything, but as of now they still have 10 votes. I wouldn't let OU or Texas vote.
esq3164
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It does not matter at this point, Were going to be left out. At this time I don't see any conf adding one. It makes no sense for them to do so. I just hope we can add tulsa and houston to the conf.
CanadianCowboy
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Yeah THAT'S the spirit...."woe is me...we can't do anything about it...nobody wants us....our leadership is just watching it happen...we should roll over and p!$s on ourselves..." My goodness....
CaliforniaCowboy
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what's your suggestion?
Robert Allen
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What none of you are considering is that this is a long-term situation. For now, you keep the league together until your escape arrives. Honestly, I think that may be several years down the road. You may have seen that OU Athletics has about $209-million in debt. They can't afford a big payoff to leave to leave the Big 12 unless Texas or the Lognhorn Network relief money covers it. You may see this drag out and as it does opinions and minds change closer to negotiation periods.

I do not believe you put this on the backs of players, but the best thing that can be done right now is play winning football, be entertaining, and fans buy tickets, show up at Boone Pickens Stadium, and make every home Saturday a party on television that makes people want to watch and even attend.

That sounds simple, but that is really what can be done right now.
NJAggie
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Robert Allen said:

What none of you are considering is that this is a long-term situation. For now, you keep the league together until your escape arrives. Honestly, I think that may be several years down the road. You may have seen that OU Athletics has about $209-million in debt. They can't afford a big payoff to leave to leave the Big 12 unless Texas or the Lognhorn Network relief money covers it. You may see this drag out and as it does opinions and minds change closer to negotiation periods.

I do not believe you put this on the backs of players, but the best thing that can be done right now is play winning football, be entertaining, and fans buy tickets, show up at Boone Pickens Stadium, and make every home Saturday a party on television that makes people want to watch and even attend.

That sounds simple, but that is really what can be done right now.
Robert, I agree you have to stick together, but its hard not to react to the foolishness that is going on.

OU & UT have got that big obligation and the league will be collecting it starting this year. OU is really in a big hurt IF the SEC can't bail them out. They are going to have to borrow money to operate on for the next two years because the next check for TV revenue they get will come in 2023-24.

The SEC is going to have to really help to get them out as I doubt they have cash to pay additional money to buy back their GoR. Hopefully the Big 8 use that fact to force the SEC into a scheduling alliance and other positions that secures an autonomous position for the Big 8 going forward. But we should hold them to playing through 2023-24 so that we can collect the full exit fee. Let them run to the SEC in debt with their anticipated $70M a year payoff cut back to $50M because of the killing of playoff expansion.

However its hard to sit and listen to these people from other conferences and the national media pummel OSU and the other schools in the Big 8 day after day. The worst thing Bowlsby has done in my mind is show up at the Texas legislature playing into ESPN's price fixing lie that the league had lost 50% of its value with the exit of the little 2.

We need some resolution sooner than later, because its going to be tough (and could be cruel) to move forward with expansion and other things to secure the Big 8 going forward and then in 2025 see a bunch of teams jump ship. The Alliance really needs to back channel a desire to help the 8 find a new home or publicly promise support to keep the Big 8 in the autonomous group and with a guaranteed playoff birth for our champ. But instead we're getting ignored by them publicly which just feeds into the ESPN propaganda, and does nothing to settle matters as they claim they want to do. Heck they could have simply said the Big 8 would be included in the scheduling if they wish.
CaliforniaCowboy
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I'm not sure those numbers or dates are correct NJ...

The B12 starts collecting (withholding) revenue the last two years, which would start in 2023 if nothing else changes between. The new report from the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal says the Big 12 deal with ESPN and FOX that runs through 2025

but in the shorter term:

2024
  • NASCAR deals expire
  • NCAA (non-CFP or March Madness) exclusivity with ESPN expires
  • College Football Playoff exclusivity with ESPN expires
  • Big Ten deals expire
  • Pac-12 deal expires

so... if there is going to be expansion, then I would presume that the B1G and 12Pac would have to announce something prior to 2024.

one thing is clear, the goons are going to keep their 2021 money - which possibly could include a MNC run and extra cash. Money should not be a problem for them or their fan base
NJAggie
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The Big XII will stop all payments to the two now (and Bowlsby has already announced this when they said they were leaving), so no money is paid out now, and once the full last two years estimate has been collected they'll get basically the 2021-2 money in 2023-4, and the 2022-3 money in 2024-5.
CaliforniaCowboy
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NJAggie said:

The Big XII will stop all payments to the two now (and Bowlsby has already announced this when they said they were leaving), so no money is paid out now, and once the full last two years estimate has been collected they'll get basically the 2021-2 money in 2023-4, and the 2022-3 money in 2024-5.
can you show me that? I've tried 15 different searches and cannot find that information.

The by-laws seem pretty clear, I'm trying to understand how he can just change them like that. The goons and horns have announced that their last day will be after the 2025 season (or rather their start date for the SEC would be 2026 - which is after the Big12 GOR contract.)

if that's actually the case, then that would SHORTEN the whole scenario, as the goons/horns would no longer have anything keeping them around past 2022. The GOR is a minor hiccup, and could be easily renegotiated.

NJAggie
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Well I don't have time to go through every article, but it is one of the first things Bowlsby said. The whole concept of GoR and Exit fee were created to protect the leagues. The money for TV is paid to the league and then the league pays it out. The schools exiting don't get their money until all has been collected or they exit and have played longer than the term of exit fees.

The GoR is not a hiccup, and that is why OU & UT haven't made move one to rattle about exiting earlier than 2025. They know they are stuck unless someone else comes in with cash to buy them out.

The thing that's changed is taking the financial hit at $40M a year when they were expecting to be making $80M a year in the SEC. With playoff expansion to do that with that dreamed of figure is probably not happening.
CanadianCowboy
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Quote:

From CaliforniaCowboy: " What is your suggestion?"
My suggestion is to stay focused on the mission (arrive at the best possible outcome for O-State), keep moving forward toward the objective (no net loss of distribution $), understand that the O-State leadership is NOT standing on the sidelines just watching things happen, have confidence that they can get the job done. I don't have the solution to problem and I don't believe ANYONE does at this point. Lots of y'all believe you do and its great fun to read your opinions of how to solve the problem but I believe that when the final unfolding happens when college football / athletics gets past this phase of turmoil, the solution is going to fit a problem that has evolved beyond what we see today. And I do believe that O-State will be positioned to come away with a good outcome. What that looks like...who knows...because it will affect far more than just O-State. Our job as fans is to continue to discuss, express opinions, consider possibilities but most of all, follow the events and have confidence that Shrum / Weiburg & all the next level people assisting are expending the effort and intelligence to get O-State to a positive outcome. If all you got is "woe is me...nobody wants us...we're all gonna die", then you're not helping. Pollyanna-ish? Maybe. But hey, I've been an O-State fan for nearly 60 years, as many others here, and we've seen a lot of bad before OUR OWN evolution to the level of success that we are at today. Be positive. If your opinion to all this is that I'm an "orange-tinted-glasses-wearing sunshine-pumper", I'm OK with that. Your opinion of me doesn't matter to me (well, maybe a little - I'm human, and I respect the opinions of most of the posters on here - but not to the point of changing my attitude). What matters to me are the opinions expressed that say there is no hope, and those opinions are ridiculous. Be positive.
CaliforniaCowboy
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so your suggestion is "don't do what he's doing?" and.. "trust our leadership" (cause they've been leading us for a whole month and a half)

oh boy....

I am one that believes that things will work out fine... but that I'm fine with an expanded B12, under certain circumstances.

The sad fact of the matter is that times have never ever been like this, and the whole matter is pretty much out of our control. That is not taking a woa is me attitude, and clearly we should always support our program, regardless.

I'm actually cheering for another power move by the SEC to expand their power and divide Div1-A into what ever it is to become.
Robert Allen
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No, you are correct the Pac-12 comes up after the 23-24 school year. I could see the Pac-12 saying no expansion on Friday because the new commissioner is getting push back from some of the schools in California that don't want a football heavy institution coming in and revealing more clearly where Pac-12 football is.

I think the Pac-12 will come back next summer and be much more serious about looking at expansion. That would allow them to bring in schools in the 23-24 school year, the year negotiations should take place. I also think that allows them to consider whether they want to add two or four schools.

Also by then the situation with the SEC and whether Sankey is going to continue to add schools will be coming to light more clearly.
NJAggie
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Robert Allen said:

No, you are correct the Pac-12 comes up after the 23-24 school year. I could see the Pac-12 saying no expansion on Friday because the new commissioner is getting push back from some of the schools in California that don't want a football heavy institution coming in and revealing more clearly where Pac-12 football is.

I think the Pac-12 will come back next summer and be much more serious about looking at expansion. That would allow them to bring in schools in the 23-24 school year, the year negotiations should take place. I also think that allows them to consider whether they want to add two or four schools.

Also by then the situation with the SEC and whether Sankey is going to continue to add schools will be coming to light more clearly.
While this makes a lot of sense, it really makes it difficult on OSU and the other schools. You almost have to move forward with Big 8 plans, and maybe one of the things that should be going on is getting serious about expansion. Force the other conferences to accept that the 8 are serious about staying together and not just waiting.

I'd also wonder for the PAC if that is the best strategy. Because right now the SEC seems willing to let them take 4 to get the little 2 out of jail. But, if you put that off then the SEC may decide to act to get the little 2 + 4 in for next year or at least by 2023-4.

If the league was merely going to be picked apart getting rid of Bowlsby didn't have much priority. However, if we're going to have to enter into negotiations with schools and networks is it time to pull the trigger and maybe have Oliver Luck or someone else come in as commissioner?
Robert Allen
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You just had an alliance announced on a handshake agreement. Asking the remaining eight teams in the Big 12 to extend or sign a new Grant in Rights won't happen. Schools will have to take a leap of faith, which most G5 schools will do. The other eight in the Big 12 are all in the same boat. More than likely, there is no expansion and the remaining eight do their best until more moves are made to keep Texas and OU in the conference until 2024-25 or if they leave, force the payout that allows them to do so. Split up the cash and use it to your best options for the future. I wouldn't put it in Olympic sports.
NJAggie
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Robert Allen said:

You just had an alliance announced on a handshake agreement. Asking the remaining eight teams in the Big 12 to extend or sign a new Grant in Rights won't happen. Schools will have to take a leap of faith, which most G5 schools will do. The other eight in the Big 12 are all in the same boat. More than likely, there is no expansion and the remaining eight do their best until more moves are made to keep Texas and OU in the conference until 2024-25 or if they leave, force the payout that allows them to do so. Split up the cash and use it to your best options for the future. I wouldn't put it in Olympic sports.
Who's looking for a new GoR. It's just that the kind of things that would be necessary IF you have to stay in the Big XII will take time to do. You can't sit and wait for the contract to expire and then try to cobble something together. Also if you aren't doing anything but sitting and waiting you take all pressure off the other parties. The Big 8 need to look like they are planning and working forward. No one is going to expect anyone to sign a GoR going beyond the end of the media rights contract (Unless you're the President of ISU). But you have to be getting in place to negotiate beyond that or you will see the conference have to fold in 2025-6 if no one has done any of that work.
CanadianCowboy
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CaliforniaCowboy said:

so your suggestion is "don't do what he's doing?" and.. "trust our leadership" (cause they've been leading us for a whole month and a half)

oh boy....

I am one that believes that things will work out fine... but that I'm fine with an expanded B12, under certain circumstances.

The sad fact of the matter is that times have never ever been like this, and the whole matter is pretty much out of our control. That is not taking a woa is me attitude, and clearly we should always support our program, regardless.

I'm actually cheering for another power move by the SEC to expand their power and divide Div1-A into what ever it is to become.
Well geez, CaliC.... Apparently its more OK to be Chikkin Little and whine about the sky is falling than to say "Buckle up, Buddercup" and have an opinion to have faith and confidence? I only took issue with an attitude that isn't helpful to anyone or anything, but if I do, I have to respond with my own version of how to solve the world peace problem?

In following the topic in the various and numerous threads, I find myself mostly in agreement with most of your points of view and possible solutions with one exception: your point of view is that Shrum & Weiburg are inexperienced innocent rookies thrown into the den of lions and you don't / won't give your vote of confidence until they prove they can survive. I am certainly not of that opinion. Neither one of them are inexperienced innocent rookies, and have already survived many dens of lions to get to the posts they have now. This is just the next challenge. No doubt that it is big, and it is supremely important, but our team is not inexperienced in solving problems.

We have a center that was a multi-year starter with honors in a lower tier league. He's now a starter for a team in a higher league, and is expected to have a good chance to play in the NFL. Has he shown what he can do in the higher league yet? No place other than showing himself worthy in practice against that higher tier of athletes. But I have confidence and faith that those that chose him to start know what they are doing.

Looking forward to your next dismissive response to my point of view that it is better not to be Chikkin Little....
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