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Future of Both Big 12 and Pac-12 Could Be in the Hands of ESPN and FOX

August 20, 2022
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STILLWATER – This is the calm before the storm for the Big 12 and Pac-12 Conferences. What a summer for the Pac-12 Conference and their commissioner George Kliavkoff. USC and UCLA fly the Pacific coast for a new conference address in the Big Ten and that rich $7 billion television contract. Kliavkoff knows how Bob Bowlsby felt last summer when Texas and Oklahoma announced they would be moving to the SEC whenever it was financially feasible or at the end of the current television rights contract in the Big 12. Then Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby blamed ESPN and now Kliavkoff has FOX Sports in his crosshairs as being partically responsible for the Trojans and Bruins departure. Now, get this, ESPN and FOX Sports will more than likely have a strong say in the future of those two conferences. 

Pac-12 Conference
Rough summer for Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff.

Besides losing USC and UCLA to the Big Ten, Kliavkoff is watching along with the rest of the Pac-12 as the Cal University System Regents debate whether UCLA can leave fellow system school Cal-Berkeley and go to the Big Ten. The regents chairman seems to think they can’t. The regents could keep UCLA in the Pac-12 or maybe take some of the Bruins Big Ten television bounty and force them to share it with California. 

Jason Scheer of Wildcat Authority, a 247 Sports site that covers the University of Arizona, reported that in the exclusive negotiation period that the Pac-12 had with Disney/ABC/ESPN resulted in an offer for exclusive rights to the Pac-12 for roughly $250 million per year coming out to an estimated $24.5 million per school per year. With the SEC and Big Ten getting somewhere betweeen $80-100 million per school per year that number for the Pac-12 would be miserable. It would take them completely out of competing. Scheer has hinted that Arizona is a school that has cast their eyes on the Big 12.

Meanwhile, a source told me that the Pac-12 Board of Directors (presidents and chancellors) heard from an independent consultant that had their multi-media rights estimated at only $300 million per year and that 40 percent of the league’s television value left with USC.

Big 12 Conference
Yormark, the new leader of the Big 12, has friends in television.

New Big 12 commissioner Brett Yormark has friends and contacts at FOX Sports and obviously knows some folks at Disney as well. The word is he is not waiting and allowing Kliavkoff and the Pac-12 that negotiating advantage of going first and that the Big 12 has had early discussions with the networks. 

What is the value of the two conferences. The Big 12 Conference has had more good teams and more good games as of late. It was Kliavkoff that last summer tried to poach Oklahoma State and Kansas State inititally to join the Pac-12. He picked those two schools because of their commitment, success, and love affair with football. He felt those two schools could come in and ramp up the intensity and even teach some of the Pac-12 schools how to do football in a big way. Ironically, USC President Carol Folt kicked Kliavkoff and his idea of bringing those two schools in to the curb. 

Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Utah, and possibly the Arizona schools bring some value to the table. ESPN has always loved that “Pac-12 After Dark” window so that is there. The negotiations could favor the Pac-12 on time slot or the Big 12 on football quality. Let’s say that ESPN and their offer in the negotiating window doesn’t change significantly. The Pac-12 and FOX don’t seem to have a mutual interest. FOX has USC and UCLA in their Big Ten package. 

FOX still needs inventory for slots other than the Big Noon kickoff and for FS1 and FS2. ESPN has the SEC and ACC, but could use inventory for ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPN News, and ESPN+. Anybody wonering what is going to happen to the Longhorn Network? Texas won’t be taking it with them. 

ESPN could take the Pac-12 with others or exclusive as they wish. FOX Sports could take Big 12 or negotiations could lead to one conference eating up the best of the other and ESPN and FOX share the rights of the surviving conference of the Power Four.

Somewhere there is a legal definition for that, if the two networks got together, and it’s called collusion. 

Discussion from...

Future of Both Big 12 and Pac-12 Could Be in the Hands of ESPN and FOX

5,924 Views | 23 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by CaliforniaCowboy
thetruth
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It's all short term anyway. The B12 and P12 together don't bring enough value to make it long term. In 1-2 years the B10 and SEC will syphon off several more teams from the P12 and B12.
# old 56
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By expanding and bringing on "good" team, will the super conferences start kicking out bad performing teams?!?
scking
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This was the first time I've ever seen a report that OSU and KSU were close to being added to the PAC 12. When was that first or ever reported by RA or anyone else?
CaliforniaCowboy
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I think you sold the PAC short by only including FOX and not also including CBS (for example, and possibly NBC/Peacock), both of whom need content.



NJAggie
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And the big miss is the fact that the B1G has the ability now to add Cal, Stanford, Washington & Oregon and get the networks to pay for it. It would seem right now they're trying to get ESPN to fund that move and pay for the B1G after dark. There is some chatter that the B1G Presidents are not too interested in Oregon & Washington, but are good with Cal & Stanford. But it looks like the P10 is still not sure how many more schools leave for the B1G and it could happen shortly after the season starts.

No one from the current B12 is anywhere on either the B1G or SEC's consideration list. The B12 will have a contract before the P10, and it will pay for some P10 schools to come over. Probably wind up with FOX, ESPN, & NBC involved.
CanadianCowboy
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Does anyone else remember back to the summer of 2021 and Kliakov's open snub of Bowlsby's proposal to form a Big-12 / Pac-12 alliance? I wonder if he thinks back on that and wishes he had reacted differently.....
thetruth
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NJAggie said:

And the big miss is the fact that the B1G has the ability now to add Cal, Stanford, Washington & Oregon and get the networks to pay for it. It would seem right now they're trying to get ESPN to fund that move and pay for the B1G after dark. There is some chatter that the B1G Presidents are not too interested in Oregon & Washington, but are good with Cal & Stanford. But it looks like the P10 is still not sure how many more schools leave for the B1G and it could happen shortly after the season starts.

No one from the current B12 is anywhere on either the B1G or SEC's consideration list. The B12 will have a contract before the P10, and it will pay for some P10 schools to come over. Probably wind up with FOX, ESPN, & NBC involved.
Have to disagree on one of your points. I do think there are teams that the SEC and the B10 have eyes on. The B10 commish came out and said they wanted to expand to 20 teams, and they set up their TV contract to reflect that.
The SEC isn't going to stop at 16. Both are going to 20-24 at some point. I think OSU is in the SEC mix at some point. When that is I don't have a clue.
NJAggie
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thetruth said:

NJAggie said:

And the big miss is the fact that the B1G has the ability now to add Cal, Stanford, Washington & Oregon and get the networks to pay for it. It would seem right now they're trying to get ESPN to fund that move and pay for the B1G after dark. There is some chatter that the B1G Presidents are not too interested in Oregon & Washington, but are good with Cal & Stanford. But it looks like the P10 is still not sure how many more schools leave for the B1G and it could happen shortly after the season starts.

No one from the current B12 is anywhere on either the B1G or SEC's consideration list. The B12 will have a contract before the P10, and it will pay for some P10 schools to come over. Probably wind up with FOX, ESPN, & NBC involved.
Have to disagree on one of your points. I do think there are teams that the SEC and the B10 have eyes on. The B10 commish came out and said they wanted to expand to 20 teams, and they set up their TV contract to reflect that.
The SEC isn't going to stop at 16. Both are going to 20-24 at some point. I think OSU is in the SEC mix at some point. When that is I don't have a clue.
Yes the B1G commish has said he wants to expand, and no Big 12 teams are on that list. He wants to go to 20 and the schools enumerated in the TV contract are Oregon, Washington, Stanford, & Cal.

There might be an opening years from now in the SEC, but they might want some ACC schools, but they are not taking anyone that doesn't add to the pot, and there is no one in the B12 that does that. No one cares about a number of schools they care about maximizing payout. The B1G has been gifted with a contract that pays them to expand, the SEC has not. The next window for SEC expansion will be when their contract is up in 2034.

OSU might make the cut at some point, but it is more likely that we will be in the Big 12 going forward not the SEC. The good news is the Big 12 seems to be in the best position to be the 3rd or the large conferences in the top tier, just paid less than the B1G/SEC.
CaliforniaCowboy
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NJAggie said:




OSU might make the cut at some point, but it is more likely that we will be in the Big 12 going forward not the SEC. The good news is the Big 12 seems to be in the best position to be the 3rd or the large conferences in the top tier, just paid less than the B1G/SEC.
we should hold out on that opinion that we're "just going to be paid less", IMO.

this new B12 commish is supposed to be able to work wonders.... if he can swing a deal to bring in the Pac4, divvy up and structure the rights into 3rds or 4ths like the B16G did, and possibly propose something new like performance based incentives to the payouts, then perhaps we could still remain close enough in revenue that it wouldn't make that much difference. (incentives like - viewership numbers tiered payouts, and subscription numbers, etc.... it is possible).

Time for the commish to earn him money
NJAggie
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CaliforniaCowboy said:

NJAggie said:




OSU might make the cut at some point, but it is more likely that we will be in the Big 12 going forward not the SEC. The good news is the Big 12 seems to be in the best position to be the 3rd or the large conferences in the top tier, just paid less than the B1G/SEC.
we should hold out on that opinion that we're "just going to be paid less", IMO.

this new B12 commish is supposed to be able to work wonders.... if he can swing a deal to bring in the Pac4, divvy up and structure the rights into 3rds or 4ths like the B16G did, and possibly propose something new like performance based incentives to the payouts, then perhaps we could still remain close enough in revenue that it wouldn't make that much difference. (incentives like - viewership numbers tiered payouts, and subscription numbers, etc.... it is possible).

Time for the commish to earn him money
I do think the deal is likely better than even the comments from the Baylor AD who said he'd expect it to pick up where the current deal ends. I do think we'll be over the 50% mark. Obviously the value of cfb games has increased, and the conference has them to sale. And we have several places that have needs for inventory, so I'd think we'll see some bids. Maybe FOX does for us what they did for the B1G: buy it all, then sale the parts off to other networks.

Something about the remarks about OU/UT leaving early seem to me to foreshadow a deal to turn the LHN into a Big 12 network. While it wouldn't be BTN money as we don't have the markets, it would bring in decent money, and with the new schools really have some pops in the roll out. It's not as far fetched as it sounds, ESPN has to do something with that space, and if it gets them their new toys in the SEC sooner its a win/win situation.
CaliforniaCowboy
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NJAggie said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

NJAggie said:




OSU might make the cut at some point, but it is more likely that we will be in the Big 12 going forward not the SEC. The good news is the Big 12 seems to be in the best position to be the 3rd or the large conferences in the top tier, just paid less than the B1G/SEC.
we should hold out on that opinion that we're "just going to be paid less", IMO.

this new B12 commish is supposed to be able to work wonders.... if he can swing a deal to bring in the Pac4, divvy up and structure the rights into 3rds or 4ths like the B16G did, and possibly propose something new like performance based incentives to the payouts, then perhaps we could still remain close enough in revenue that it wouldn't make that much difference. (incentives like - viewership numbers tiered payouts, and subscription numbers, etc.... it is possible).

Time for the commish to earn him money
I do think the deal is likely better than even the comments from the Baylor AD who said he'd expect it to pick up where the current deal ends. I do think we'll be over the 50% mark. Obviously the value of cfb games has increased, and the conference has them to sale. And we have several places that have needs for inventory, so I'd think we'll see some bids. Maybe FOX does for us what they did for the B1G: buy it all, then sale the parts off to other networks.

Something about the remarks about OU/UT leaving early seem to me to foreshadow a deal to turn the LHN into a Big 12 network. While it wouldn't be BTN money as we don't have the markets, it would bring in decent money, and with the new schools really have some pops in the roll out. It's not as far fetched as it sounds, ESPN has to do something with that space, and if it gets them their new toys in the SEC sooner its a win/win situation.
maybe... I think ESPN will be the future partner of the B12, and Fox and friends (i.e., CBS/NBC) will pick up the remaining pieces of the college football world (PAC, MAC, etc.)

I think (at least I'm hoping) that ESPN low-balled the PAC because they intended to focus their money on the B12
NJAggie
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CaliforniaCowboy said:

NJAggie said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

NJAggie said:




OSU might make the cut at some point, but it is more likely that we will be in the Big 12 going forward not the SEC. The good news is the Big 12 seems to be in the best position to be the 3rd or the large conferences in the top tier, just paid less than the B1G/SEC.
we should hold out on that opinion that we're "just going to be paid less", IMO.

this new B12 commish is supposed to be able to work wonders.... if he can swing a deal to bring in the Pac4, divvy up and structure the rights into 3rds or 4ths like the B16G did, and possibly propose something new like performance based incentives to the payouts, then perhaps we could still remain close enough in revenue that it wouldn't make that much difference. (incentives like - viewership numbers tiered payouts, and subscription numbers, etc.... it is possible).

Time for the commish to earn him money
I do think the deal is likely better than even the comments from the Baylor AD who said he'd expect it to pick up where the current deal ends. I do think we'll be over the 50% mark. Obviously the value of cfb games has increased, and the conference has them to sale. And we have several places that have needs for inventory, so I'd think we'll see some bids. Maybe FOX does for us what they did for the B1G: buy it all, then sale the parts off to other networks.

Something about the remarks about OU/UT leaving early seem to me to foreshadow a deal to turn the LHN into a Big 12 network. While it wouldn't be BTN money as we don't have the markets, it would bring in decent money, and with the new schools really have some pops in the roll out. It's not as far fetched as it sounds, ESPN has to do something with that space, and if it gets them their new toys in the SEC sooner its a win/win situation.
maybe... I think ESPN will be the future partner of the B12, and Fox and friends (i.e., CBS/NBC) will pick up the remaining pieces of the college football world (PAC, MAC, etc.)

I think (at least I'm hoping) that ESPN low-balled the PAC because they intended to focus their money on the B12
Well all reports are that FOX has told the PAC they're not interested. FOX has a full 3:30 set of games they have no inventory for. NBC also has 1/2 a slate of 3:30 slots they need inventory for. ESPN has very little T1 space so I don't see them bidding for too much T1 content if any. They'll want 3 SEC games on each week to try to make money off of that package. They already are stuck with some ACC content, so no real place for B12 content. FOX will be a big part of any B12 deal, and have repeatedly signaled their interest.

My guess is FOX tier 1 for 16-20 games, NBC tier 1 for 7 games. Tier 2 will be split between FS1 & 2, ESPN & co., and possibly Peakcock. Tier 3 I think stays with ESPN because of what they do with our Olympic sports. The question there is will it be on a dedicated network or stay on ESPN+
Danny Deck
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I'm curious where most Big 10 wrestling ends up. If it's mostly on Peacock, I'd be happy if ours were also on there. More bang for the buck.
CaliforniaCowboy
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Danny Deck said:

I'm curious where most Big 10 wrestling ends up. If it's mostly on Peacock, I'd be happy if ours were also on there. More bang for the buck.
Big 10 Network BTN?
Danny Deck
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I'm sure some will be there, and it's part of my Hulu Live plan. But for what isn't picked up for it, my understanding is Peacock will get those.
CaliforniaCowboy
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Danny Deck said:

I'm sure some will be there, and it's part of my Hulu Live plan. But for what isn't picked up for it, my understanding is Peacock will get those.
"The Big Ten Conference is a powerful addition for both, and will deliver big and new audiences throughout the year," said Mark Lazarus, Chairman, NBCUniversal Television and Streaming.

NBC Sports/Peacock's new agreement with college sports' top conference will also feature dozens of men's and women's basketball games (including multiple games each year in the Men's and Women's Big Ten Tournaments), Olympic sports, golf and more, providing hundreds of hours of Big Ten content across Peacock.


Good question... I haven't seen anything with a specific breakout, but it suggests that rasslin might get some on Peacock. (of course the B1G has quite a few "Olympic sports" in addition to rasslin)

Danny Deck
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It looks to me like it's basically the equivalent of what we have with ESPN+, some stuff can still be picked up by Fox/BTN but otherwise the school can put it up on Peacock.
NJAggie
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Well Brett McMurphy has reported that Oregon had people in Chicago opening negotiations with the B1G. So the rush to get in is on.

John Canzano the Oregon homer has suddenly started pulling for Oregon to B1G and question if the talks with ESPN he was claiming last week were fantastic.

Lots of things still in play and we will probably get leaks about other schools talking to the B1G soon, and probably some talks with Big 12. It's tough to avoid leaks when everyone is watching for talks, you have to do it like OU/UT & USC/UCLA did when no was expecting it.
CaliforniaCowboy
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I don't think we'll see any movement on contracts until late in the season, at the earliest.

There is no rush, the existing contracts are in place until next year and later.

everybody seems to be trying to make their case, but I don't expect any concrete decisions for months, and maybe longer, much longer (next summer)

backphil
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CC did you come up with that B16G brand?
CaliforniaCowboy
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backphil said:

CC did you come up with that B16G brand?
LOL - yes I did.... I was trying to do it in mathematical power style, but couldn't get this forum to accept the font
NJAggie
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CaliforniaCowboy said:

backphil said:

CC did you come up with that B16G brand?
LOL - yes I did.... I was trying to do it in mathematical power style, but couldn't get this forum to accept the font
Well it sounds like your profits off of it might not be too great as its going to be B1x2G before long.
CaliforniaCowboy
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NJAggie said:

CaliforniaCowboy said:

backphil said:

CC did you come up with that B16G brand?
LOL - yes I did.... I was trying to do it in mathematical power style, but couldn't get this forum to accept the font
Well it sounds like your profits off of it might not be too great as its going to be B1x2G before long.

B(1+1)4G that's supposed to be to the power of 4... which I think would be 16... anyway, that logo looks about as ridiculous as their conference (Ca. to Jersey?) sheesh
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