Webb's Official Visit Highlights the Iowa State Weekend Recruiting

Thanks for the update Robert.

I see you Zac Allen in the picture with that big boy from Arkansas!

nice update Robert!

now.... from the picture at the top, which is your favorite "pistol" hand pose (or is there actually a correct pose)

the one by Coach Gundy, or the one by recruit cornerback Lardarius Webb Jr.?

nice pic, regardless..

Great job Robert! It will be exciting to see who we get. Should be good. They should want to play for a national brand like OSU!

Question for Pokes Report: Flores seems to be getting alot of love, but his rating nationally and by Pokes Report is lower than Rangel from 22. Seems strange. Just curious on that.

OSU1414 said:

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Question for Pokes Report: Flores seems to be getting alot of love, but his rating nationally and by Pokes Report is lower than Rangel from 22. Seems strange. Just curious on that.

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Believe it or not THAT IS A GOOD THING FOR US!!!

At what point do Cowboy faithful(s) accept the fact that FB recruiting under current regime will never be where it should be.... undeniably, Gundy's overall #'s speak for themselves .... however, undeniably, Aranda wins B12 in 2nd year .... Dykes is in B12 Championship game 1st year ..... ummm?

I totally agree.

gary121853 said:

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At what point do Cowboy faithful(s) accept the fact that FB recruiting under current regime will never be where it should be.... undeniably, Gundy's overall #'s speak for themselves .... however, undeniably, Aranda wins B12 in 2nd year .... Dykes is in B12 Championship game 1st year ..... ummm?

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humor me.... what were their team's recruiting classes ranked?

CaliforniaCowboy said:

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gary121853 said:

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At what point do Cowboy faithful(s) accept the fact that FB recruiting under current regime will never be where it should be.... undeniably, Gundy's overall #'s speak for themselves .... however, undeniably, Aranda wins B12 in 2nd year .... Dykes is in B12 Championship game 1st year ..... ummm?

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humor me.... what were their team's recruiting classes ranked?

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Cursory review over last decade (+) reveals across various recruiting services (w/different methodologies for rankings etc) OSU is always mid-level in B12 etc ... the 'real' issue is that OSU should always clearly be a top 15-20 recruiting program ... period... they are not and never have been ... in B12 they should be top 3 with an annual class of 50% (+/-) 4 star players ...

We all know it's not so cut and dry but generally speaking would you say teams that recruit better have greater success?

CowboyRed said:

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We all know it's not so cut and dry but generally speaking would you say teams that recruit better have greater success?

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If one was to just look at the #'s (in isolation) i dont know how any rational person could conclude otherwise .... the #'s aside, the others.
are either recruiting outright better talent OR evaluating/developing equivalent talent better than Gundy/Staff .... regardless, something is not right on the recruiting front .....

gary121853 said:

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At what point do Cowboy faithful(s) accept the fact that FB recruiting under current regime will never be where it should be.... undeniably, Gundy's overall #'s speak for themselves .... however, undeniably, Aranda wins B12 in 2nd year .... Dykes is in B12 Championship game 1st year ..... ummm?

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You're never gonna get it.
The difference between #15 and #30 is minuscule, especially if and when only one or two higher rated recruits don't pan out which happens on every team. The real value of a coaching staff is more appropriately focused on whether they turn 3 stars into 4 stars (see Gundy) or 4 stars into 2 or 3 stars (see aTm or UT). Now with NIL, how many 4 and 5 stars are more focused on $$$ than committing to the team, learning and improving (see aTm and UT).

Gundy is clearly focused on guys that fit, that want to play, that are team guys than he's focused on some random recruiting guy or gal assigning number grades to HS athletes.

Thanks. That's interesting And I agree

gary121853 said:

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At what point do Cowboy faithful(s) accept the fact that FB recruiting under current regime will never be where it should be.... undeniably, Gundy's overall #'s speak for themselves .... however, undeniably, Aranda wins B12 in 2nd year .... Dykes is in B12 Championship game 1st year ..... ummm?

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Ummm, Aranda won with Rhule recruits and talent and Dykesvis winning with Patterson recruits and talent, just like Bob Stoops won a NC in his second year with mostly John Blake recruits and talent! Do you evenTHINK or REREAD your comments before you hit post!!!

gary121853 said:

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CaliforniaCowboy said:

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gary121853 said:

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At what point do Cowboy faithful(s) accept the fact that FB recruiting under current regime will never be where it should be.... undeniably, Gundy's overall #'s speak for themselves .... however, undeniably, Aranda wins B12 in 2nd year .... Dykes is in B12 Championship game 1st year ..... ummm?

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humor me.... what were their team's recruiting classes ranked?

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Cursory review over last decade (+) reveals across various recruiting services (w/different methodologies for rankings etc) OSU is always mid-level in B12 etc ... the 'real' issue is that OSU should always clearly be a top 15-20 recruiting program ... period... they are not and never have been ... in B12 they should be top 3 with an annual class of 50% (+/-) 4 star players ...

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hmmm.... I meant, the BU and TCU class ranks that you were comparing us too and giving Aranda and Dykes credit for

GumbyFromPokeyLand said:

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You're never gonna get it.
The difference between #15 and #30 is minuscule, especially if and when only one or two higher rated recruits don't pan out which happens on every team. The real value of a coaching staff is more appropriately focused on whether they turn 3 stars into 4 stars (see Gundy) or 4 stars into 2 or 3 stars (see aTm or UT). Now with NIL, how many 4 and 5 stars are more focused on $$$ than committing to the team, learning and improving (see aTm and UT).

Gundy is clearly focused on guys that fit, that want to play, that are team guys than he's focused on some random recruiting guy or gal assigning number grades to HS athletes.

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I'm with Gumby.... and also, unexplainably, the team rankings do not match to the player rankings, so there is that unexplained oddity too (called blue blood fudge factor to boost subscription profits)

no serious analyst would look at the numbers in isolation, because the process and rating is way to subjective for that.

So basically if you have great talent then it doesn't matter as much who is coaching them. The tcu and Baylor programs have recruited better than us for awhile and it was easier to step in and coach them up and get results. The talent in the program as a whole is better. So logic says with osu having great coaches if we recruited better talent like those other programs instead of being average then we would have better results. Maybe we would be able to play backup qbs and lineman like other programs do and still function.

Now Texas Am and Texas are outliers. Sometimes great talent is wasted with bad coaching or having the wrong priorities.

CowboyRed said:

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So basically if you have great talent then it doesn't matter as much who is coaching them. The tcu and Baylor programs have recruited better than us for awhile and it was easier to step in and coach them up and get results. The talent in the program as a whole is better. So logic says with osu having great coaches if we recruited better talent like those other programs instead of being average then we would have better results. Maybe we would be able to play backup qbs and lineman like other programs do and still function.

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The coach matters first and foremost. Period.

Then location and funding.

OSU is having a bit of a "down year" only going 9-3, but we'll rebound next year. Too many kids lost to transfer, and too many injuries to have another 11 win season. It happens.

beyond that, I have no idea what you are even talking about.

A few points.

Recruiting rankings have always been just directional, not definitive. With the portal and NIL, I would tell you they are less directional. With transfers in and out, and players chasing $$ instead of coaching, recruiting rankings are next to meaningless to me.

FWIW
Baylor has been ranked ahead of OSU once in the last 5 years (by 4 or 5 spots)

TCU has been ranked ahead of OSU twice in the last 5 years (by a couple of spots)

For 2023, the #15 class has an average player score of 89. The #30 class has an average player score of 89.

For 2022, 6 teams in the top 10 have an average player score of less than 92. Teams 30-40 have an average player score of 86,5. Maybe somebody explain to me the difference between players with scores of 91 and 86.

Tom Luginbill will tell you the large HS in Texas are producing many 4 and 5 star athletes that have plateaued in terms of development because of 7 on 7, personal trainers and better facilities. Thus, teams heavy on 4 and 5 star Texas recruits see much less improvement over their college careers - see UT, aTm and OU. On the other hand, teams with Texas 3 stars (OSU, Baylor, TCU) seem to get more improvement out of their recruits thus leveling the talent field somewhat.

Thank you Gumby for taking the time to post the substantive facts.

So you are saying we aren't being out recruited but out coached?

CowboyRed said:

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So you are saying we aren't being out recruited but out coached?

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Over what period? One year? One game? One play?

Nobody is out-recruiting or out-coaching Alabama, yet they are 8-2. OSU is 7-3. Transfers, injuries, matchups, game plans, good luck, bad luck, etc, etc, etc all happen. It's football. Sometimes things work out better than expected, sometimes they don't.

Lose an unexpected game or two and the sky is falling, something is broken, and fault has to be determined. Wears me out.

are either recruiting outright better talent OR evaluating/developing equivalent talent better than Gundy/Staff .... regardless, something is not right on the recruiting front ..... This is what Gary said. So Baylor winning the big 12 under aranda in year two and dykes at tcu is in the championship game in year one. So if it's not from recruiting then they both coached better than us. Or schemedd better aka out coaching. So last year and this year.

CowboyRed said:

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are either recruiting outright better talent OR evaluating/developing equivalent talent better than Gundy/Staff .... regardless, something is not right on the recruiting front ..... This is what Gary said. So Baylor winning the big 12 under aranda in year two and dykes at tcu is in the championship game in year one. So if it's not from recruiting then they both coached better than us. Or schemedd better aka out coaching. So last year and this year.

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wasn't Warren out when we lost the champ game against BU? Wasn't it Jackson that came up a yard short?

A yard short. Better players? Better coaches? Better play? Injury? One yard.


Dykes is just a damned good play caller, and TCU was very, very solid before he arrived, especially on defense.

I have no problem saying Dykes is a much better offensive mind than anything we have on staff. And we lost to them in DOUBLE OVERTIME. Time and opportunity ran out. Better players? Better coaches? Better play?

you make it sound like both of those teams are light years ahead of us, when it is only minuscule differences... an inch here, double OT there, etc.

CowboyRed said:

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are either recruiting outright better talent OR evaluating/developing equivalent talent better than Gundy/Staff .... regardless, something is not right on the recruiting front ..... This is what Gary said. So Baylor winning the big 12 under aranda in year two and dykes at tcu is in the championship game in year one. So if it's not from recruiting then they both coached better than us. Or schemedd better aka out coaching. So last year and this year.

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Do you believe Gundy is intentionally NOT recruiting meaningful numbers of higher ranked players that fit scheme, culture and character he could reasonably get? If the answer is no, what's the point of this thread? If the answer is yes, suggest you call Weiberg and/or Shrum..

I think he isn't good at it I'll say for sure. We offer and recruit a lot of high ranked kids but we miss 99 percent of the time. So intentionally no. I'm just going with what Gary was pointing out tho. What's the difference in these other programs having greater success? If it's injuries then I'd again point to not recruiting and developing better depth

For me it's just talking ball tho and getting down to the root. I'm not bashing or arguing. I'm not an analyst but we do have issues than normal every day people can see and have pointed out for years

CowboyRed said:

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I think he isn't good at it I'll say for sure. We offer and recruit a lot of high ranked kids but we miss 99 percent of the time. So intentionally no. I'm just going with what Gary was pointing out tho. What's the difference in these other programs having greater success? If it's injuries then I'd again point to not recruiting and developing better depth

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Let's chase that rabbit.

Are you prepared to fire Gundy? If yes, you need to seek immediate psychiatric treatment. If no, how specifically would you recommend he change and is there one chance in a million anyone could get Gundy to change?

Seems like a complete waste on energy and time.

Did you read me say that? I love Gundy. I am a realist tho. Everything can be evaluated regularly. Coaches do it all the time. So it's fair for fans to wonder why after 20 years certain things haven't change I mean that's pretty fair. So to me Gundy is crazy successful for osu standards but why haven't we gotten over the hump? Why do other schools do what we can't do. Each year there is one. He has 1 big 12 title in 20 years. Won lots of games but it's not like there are no problems worth examining

CowboyRed said:

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Did you read me say that? I love Gundy. I am a realist tho. Everything can be evaluated regularly. Coaches do it all the time. So it's fair for fans to wonder why after 20 years certain things haven't change I mean that's pretty fair. So to me Gundy is crazy successful for osu standards but why haven't we gotten over the hump? Why do other schools do what we can't do. Each year there is one. He has 1 big 12 title in 20 years. Won lots of games but it's not like there are no problems worth examining

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huh? "things" have changed significantly in the past 20 years.... night and day. light years different.

over what "hump"? We won the conference. We were one bad poll vote (.00001) from playing the MNC game.

We played in the conf champ game just last year....

what the heck are you talking about?

Cali please respect the post I wrote the other day. We aren't civil so let's save the forum some annoyance and continue to ignore one another.

CowboyRed said:

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Cali please respect the post I wrote the other day. We aren't civil so let's save the forum some annoyance and continue to ignore one another.

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I will comment on any post that I feel like commenting on, especially those that have gross misrepresentations in them.

Gundy has not even been our coach for 20 years, so who knows what the heck you're even talking about.

If you don't want your BS to be challenged, then start using facts.

It's your right. Right or wrong. I'm just trying to prevent fighting.